Downtown Dilemma on Urban Jacksonville Weekly Monday December 14th

[jason_contentdg]

^ I agree lake.  Let's try baby steps, like how do we get them to stay downtown for awhile after service instead of heading out quickly, being guided along by traffic cops.  It would be nice if they decided to eat somewhere downtown, or venture to Uptown Market or something, instead of hitting up the Olive Garden miles away...

*edit: of course that's not really a baby step at all.

[fsujax]

I have offered suggestions to Terry Lorince of DVI on how to better capture the Downtown church crowd on Sundays. Nothing has happend.

[jason_contentdg]

fsujax, are those items that you have shared here as well?

[Karl_Pilkington]

wouldn't surprise me at all if some of those downtown hating posters on the TU site are devoted sunday parishioners at FBC.

no wonder they drive in and drive out as as fast as they can.

[Ocklawaha]

Agreed Jason, FSUJAX, Lakelander, Vicupstate... I think First Baptist Church is a huge asset to downtown. It's alive, in use, well maintained, has shown it will follow the City's plan concepts (Skywalks), has added beautification at street level (Plantings, fountain, etc..) If the same property was a windowless "Playboy Club," I bet we wouldn't hear a single protest. The people that hate FBC are not really mad at the church, they are mad at the concept of a God. If they tore down FBC tomorrow, these same ill contents would be raising hell about St. Johns Cathedral, or Bethel, or ??  No one is holding a gun to FBC's head, they are downtown because they want to be. We are now complaining that "They drive out as fast as they can..." sorry people, but to do so means they also DROVE IN!

I agree that keeping the crowd in town would be a plus, but they are not going to stay and eat, if there is no place to stay and eat. The fact that they are comfortable with meeting downtown is worth it's weight in gold, but nobody is cashing in. All that would have to be done is promote some sort of monthly event like "CHURCH OUT SUNDAY'S" where a certain list of downtown eating establishments would agree to stay open, and FBC, and the rest of the church community, would agree to promote it as a fellowship day. Landing? Are you listening? An event like this could easily be grown into an every Sunday tradition. At that point we just add recreation, and retail.

OCKLAWAHA

[heights unknown]

FBC is a very CONVENIENT overused excuse.  Bay Street has a few bars and clubs now as does the Landing, did FBC oppose any of them?  I don't remember hearing it and if they did, they weren't successful. 

It's time to lay down the excuses, especially that one. 

Probaby because many of the Parrishoners and Church goers attend those bars and clubs.  Nothing wrong with that as long as they don't get caught.

"HU"

[JaxLanding]

OCKLAWAHA - We're definitely listening.

Let me clarify one point though - there ARE places to stay and eat in downtown Jacksonville on Sundays.  Every Landing restaurant is open (with the exception of Koja Sushi that doesn't open until 5pm on Sundays) for lunch and dinner and the Food Court operates under mall hours on Sunday (12pm-5:30pm).  I know not every Food Court business opens on Sundays, but the majority of them are.

We have talked to many of the churches in downtown Jax.  The problem we have found with many of the church attendees is parking.  When they get back into their cars, they don't want to have to search for a place to park near The Landing.  We do have some meters near The Landing, and you know they are free on weekends, but they do get taken rather quickly (some by employees here because they know they don't have to pay to park that day).  As much as I can request our employees not park in the meters that should be reserved for our customers, they are going to do what they want to do.  They get sick of having to pay to park to go to work, too.

[Captain Zissou]

Put in a Loop Pizza Grill within a block or two of FBC, those fill up to the brim on Sunday afternoons.  Then we can put something else a half block away when the Loop gets too crowded.  Make a trail of bread crumbs that will eventually lead the FBC patrons to Hemming and the Landing.

[jason_contentdg]

^That's another sad issue on it's own, JaxLanding.  Why people would need to get in their cars from FBC and other downtown churches, to go 8 blocks is beyond me.  Some need to drive I'm sure, but there is a large percentage that could easily walk to a nearby restaurant, but suburban thinking would say otherwise.

And a trolley stop and line would be even better.

[JaxLanding]

jason_contentdg:  you hit the nail on the head!!  But we see it all the time.  Those of us who are familiar with downtown Jacksonville know that you can find places to park.  There is a lot of parking in the downtown area!  BUT - people are used to pulling up to a free parking spot just outside the doors of the business in which they want to enter.  The do not like to pay for parking or having to walk a few blocks to get where they want to go.

~side note~  Village Bread Cafe is also open for breakfast on Sundays! (I forgot to mention that in my previous post).

Aside from the issue with parking for church goers, our parking woes directly influence the businesses that would want to move in to The Landing and occupy some of the empty spaces you see today.  When a company talks to to us about leasing, the first thing they ask for is parking.  They want dedicated parking for their own business.  For example (and this really did happen, btw), a restaurant talks to us and says, "Great, we love it.  We want to build and open up in downtown Jax.  Now give us 120 parking spaces and we'll sign on the dotted line."  The sad thing is that we have to then say, "we don't have that to give to you."

[redglittercoffin]

Of the people I see leaving FBC on Sundays, 90% of them could use the 8 block walk to the landing to get their grub on.  Geez. 

This is why I don't think a trolley or streetcar system is the magic bullet as some seem to make it out as.  There are too many fat asses in this town that can't stand walking more than 30 feet.

[fsujax]

Ock, that is exaclty the concept I tried to sell Terry Lorince. Have some sort of Stay Downtown Sunday after Church event. Get the Landing involved, other restaurants, MOSH, MOCA what ever else. FBC could leave one garage open so folks attending the church do not have to feel they need to get in their cars and drive to the Landing because they lock the garage at 1pm. I am more than confident the church would leave one garage open to accomodate the event. All we have to do is ask! Let's also remember FBC isn't the only church DT there are many othes as well.

[finehoe]

There are too many fat asses in this town that can't stand walking more than 30 feet.

Sad but true.  Unfortunately, it's not a Jacksonville-specific problem either.

[stjr]

It's not a long term fix, and Ock will probably kick and scream, but if JTA ran a free weekend restaurant/night life PCT trolley around the core downtown in a 10 minute headway loop, it might do wonders for Bay Street, the Landing, and everyone else downtown and serve as the model for a streetcar route in the future.

It would take church goers to the landing and hotel guests to Bay Street, the Landing, and other locations around downtown.  One could park anywhere downtown, walk a few feet to a trolley stop, and be anywhere in no time with minimal walks.

This solution is instant and cheap compared to other options.  Costs could be recovered by DVI and/or increased property values derived from improved business. (Or, by taking the $14 million loss on the $ky-high-way and redirecting it to something useful!   )

[Overstreet]

.............. if JTA ran a free weekend restaurant/night life PCT trolley around the core downtown in a 10 minute headway loop,..............It would take church goers to the landing and hotel guests to Bay Street, the Landing, and other locations around downtown.  One could park anywhere downtown, walk a few feet to a trolley stop, and be anywhere in no time with minimal walks.

This solution is instant and cheap ...........

So what are the hours?  Friday 1700 through Monday 0700? Over all I don't think that would be "cheap" as you think. It would be less expensive than building another skyway yes, but not inexpensive. 

Besides all that Beach Road Chicken Dinners is not downtown. I've run into some of my FBC friends at the Fruit Cove Loop on their way home from church.  One does not always stop to eat at  at the first chance you get.