Downtown Dilemma on Urban Jacksonville Weekly Monday December 14th

[urbanjacksonville]

Urban Jacksonville Weekly #45 â€" Discussing Downtown Dilemma with the Times Union
Listen Now » http://www.urbanjacksonville.info/2009/12/15/urban-jacksonville-weekly-45-discussing-downtown-dilemma-with-the-times-union

We'll be talking with Bill Miller, Assistant Metro Editor and the editor of Downtown Dilemma, a new 5-part series from the Times-Union and Jacksonville.com on Downtown Jacksonville. Five reporters spent 4 months investigating why efforts to revitalize downtown have fizzled and what it will take to get it back on track. The series begins Sunday.

Please leave questions for Bill if you have them and thanks!

The 5 parts in the Downtown Dilemma Series

• Promise Unfulfilled
• A Day in the Life
• Living Downtown
• Faith in the Future
• Six Paths to a Brighter Horizon

Urban Jacksonville Weekly @ 9:30am on Monday
Watch here or you can watch or listen to last weeks episode with Burro Bags

[urbanjacksonville]

Here are some questions from a friend, they may spur some more:

1. what effort is being made to promote and attract new residents downtown?
2. why not offer incentives for people willing to move downtown to help spur growth?
3. is there any attention being made to ensure we have attractive housing options for potential new residents?
4. why not offer a education program for our suburban minded realtors showing them the housing stock and making them comfortable showing places downtown, I know from experience that when i moved here 5 years ago every realtor i spoke with informed me that no one wants to live downtown- they did not get it.

[braeburn]

Having been a realtor who specialized in marketing exclusively in the Downtown and surrounding urban neighborhoods, the largest obstacle I encountered was prospective buyers who would have never given these areas a thought. They just don't know about it, because they are so used to suburban living.

There is a disparity with regards to housing perceptions downtown: there is high end, and there is low end. There is no "in between" to match with the "in between" middle class lifestyle of planet Suburbia. Or so people think.

Based on the trends I've seen and the current availability of properties in these specific market areas, I would say that Springfield is going to be the very best as far as sales and production volume in the coming months. Not only does it fall somewhere in between "high end" penthouses at the Peninsula to "low end" efficiencies at City Place, but it also has a tremendous "neighborhood" feeling that will go a long way to bringing actual residents into the area, as opposed to investors merely looking to flip "this old house."

I have very high hopes that Springfield can be the grand finale to flushing out the "circle" of urban neighborhoods surrounding Downtown, as opposed to "just" Riverside/Avondale and San Marco. Once the entire downtown is completely surrounded, inward movement will stand a better chance.

[Charles Hunter]

Oh, I like your #2 question - if we can offer Property Tax deals to big business, why not for people buying homes downtown?

From the daily titles, I can't tell - is the series just about downtown residential issues, or is it broader than that?  Of course, DT amenities (Laura, wayfinding, Riverwalk maintenance/upgrades, etc.), employment (so you don't have to commute to Deerwood), retail (or drive miles for shopping), all effect DT living choices.

[mtraininjax]

I have very high hopes that Springfield can be the grand finale to flushing out the "circle" of urban neighborhoods surrounding Downtown, as opposed to "just" Riverside/Avondale and San Marco. Once the entire downtown is completely surrounded, inward movement will stand a better chance.

Bring it on, as they say. I like Springfield, but if I was new to the city, would I send my family to Springfield, with few shops and restaurants or Riverside, Avondale or San Marco which have established shops, merchant associations and events that are, in my opinion, superior to any other suburb in Jacksonville. My wife is a realtor and I shall be posting the sales in these areas over the next few months. Again, I say, bring...it...on.

[braeburn]

Riverside may have more shops and restaurants, but as a specific market neighborhood, it is very transient in nature with regards to residences. Lots of rentals and multi-family homes, so the area lacks a sense of permanence. It's difficult to create lasting neighbor to neighbor relations. Even the shops and restaurants lack a sense of permanence, coming and going minus a select handful who have made it through the test of time.

That's not a negative, but as far as purchasing a home, comparing Riverside or San Marco to Springfield is like comparing apples and oranges. It is not a question of better or worse - each neighborhood is different.

And yes, the closest "neighborhood" feel to compare Springfield to would be Avondale, but the price point in Avondale is considerably higher and therefore is limited as far as prospective purchasers. Each urban neighborhood brings something different to the table, and the potential of Springfield to be realized stands a very good chance in lieu of other neighborhoods having more shops and restaurants. Springfield is gaining more venues also, with uptown market, the ever successful 3 Layers a Coffeehouse, and Fusion, to name a few. I am fairly certain they are also here to stay.

Feel free to post the sales in each area in the coming months. But do not forget to also post the amount of rentals vs. purchases for each respective area. Bring that on

[urbanjacksonville]

From the daily titles, I can't tell - is the series just about downtown residential issues, or is it broader than that?  Of course, DT amenities (Laura, wayfinding, Riverwalk maintenance/upgrades, etc.), employment (so you don't have to commute to Deerwood), retail (or drive miles for shopping), all effect DT living choices.

This, from what I understand, is a wide ranging series, much broader than residential issues.

[urbanjacksonville]

Here is another question from the blog that may spur some additional discussion:

Did your reporters include Indianapolis in your research?  I was the Simon Developer for the Circle Centre Mall that opened in 1995.  Prior to the mall opening, the downtown more void of activity that Jacksonville.

[heights unknown]

Sounds good to me; let's do this.

"HU"

[floridaforester]

 
How do you figure that Riverside is transient, Braeburn?   yes, there are rentals (mostly duplex and quads), but this adds a diversity to the residents.  IMO having younger residents just out of high school or college adds vibrancy to a neighborhood that would otherwise gentrify into something resembling Ortega.   I am a Realtor specializing in the downtown neighborhoods and used to do quite a bit of business in Springfield, but almost every time I showed potential buyers both Riverside and Springfield, the former was the ultimate choice.  Even without the Publix, there are still dozens more dining and shopping options in Riverside than Springfield.

Springfield has some beautiful architecture, but I think the lack of smaller bungalows restricts the housing choices for singles or young couples with limited budgets.  Especially if they are planning on tackling a restoration project.  As for the suburban Realtors not knowing the area, that's fine.  I think there are plenty of Realtors with a passion for urban living to go around.   Any buyers with an interest in historic/downtown neighborhoods will find a Realtor that matches their interest.

[vicupstate]

Questions for UJW:

1)  Beyond the renovations to Metro Park, the Southbank Riverwalk, and Laura Street, what if any plans does the current administration have for Downtown?
2)  Is the current administration still opposed to selling the land underneath the Landing?
3)  What is the status of the plans to 2-way the majority of the streets Downtown?
4)  What is the timetable for developing a plan to sell or re-use the courthouse property?
5)  What importance does the Convention Center have in the future of Downtown, within the collective mindset of the city and business leadership?


I'll try to think of some more.     

[urbanjacksonville]

Thanks vicupstate, you rock!

[Dan B]

We have been talking about downtown residential since the days when we were all on Metjax.com. I believe one idea Lake presented was similar to what Phili did with City Center, which is the use of Tax Credits, or actually establishing a 10 year tax moratorium to land owners who brought business and residences to City Center. One article I read said that when that was established a few years ago it was the first time in over 20 years that the population had stopped dropping, and in fact, it has since started to increase again.

Now, the times were different. 5 years ago developers could have gotten funding from any number of sources. Now, however, money is scarce. I was recently talking to Petras property manager, and he said the problem is even if anyone WANTED to act, there is no money for them TO act.

So, perhaps a tax moratorium combined with some sort of super low interest pot of money for property owners to borrow from the city to develop structures that have been empty for more than 5 or 10 years?

I dont know the answers, but it seems to me that if the city were interested in bringing residents downtown, they would be searching for an answer, and talking about bringing more than just high end condos to the river front.

To that point, I believe someone else made the point about moving the city off the river front, and moving the jail from the Cathedral district (including the low security facility behind it).

Also, I dont think its necessary to move the social service centers, nessecarily (though I agree, basing them all downtown is not the right thing to do) but you must address the hoards of people who hang around these facilities all day long. If you look at Pearl St between State and Union, Or Adams, between Liberty and the Creek, you will see people sitting there in large numbers pretty much all day. Nobody would want to live or work in an area that has such a large loitering population.

I also hate to concede the point, but part of the answer MAY be day centers. However, If you do build them you have to disperse them around the city. One in Regency, one downtown, one on Blanding, and one at Gateway mall. Hell, with the commercial issues, I know for a fact that there is space at all four locations.

So, to recap

1) Tax incentives for downtown property owners
2) Availability of low interest loans from the city
3) Jail out of downtown, and move City services off the river.
4) Day centers spread around the city, dispersing the transient population to more manageable numbers in multiple locations, and removing them from the streets where you want people and commerce to succeed.

[urbanjacksonville]

Thanks Dan! Those are great points. I'll try to include them in the discussion.

[Ocklawaha]

Five reporters spent 4 months investigating why efforts to revitalize downtown have fizzled and what it will take to get it back on track.

BINGO! What will it take? 30 freaking years of pounding on the ears of a deaf city? Too much man, it is WAY PAST time to do the streetcars, Amtrak, commuter Rail AND a REAL transportation center (NOT the one JTA has scattered all over LaVilla), into downtown Jacksonville.  Streetcars return from $5.00 to $1,200.00 in new development for every dollar invested. Bad Economy? Norfolk broke ground in this economy and ZAP, a sudden huge building boom downtown, in a city that has been losing population for decades.

We've missed the train on this issue by not only ignoring the chance to be the first city with a new Heritage Streetcar System, but we have refused to be pro-active in anything rail. Our port has suffered, our highways have suffered, and our abandoned downtown has suffered. Pro-Active, imagine that not long ago 1,000+ men and women worked at Jacksonville Terminal and sundry support functions. A pro Active city would be making the calls, organizing the meetings of Mayors and Transit Directors, working every inch with Amtrak, even helping to design new routes.

So we have no Streetcars. Well damn, we don't have much left of the 12 Amtrak trains and 40+ intercity bus schedules either. Yet every day a very popular train (The Palmetto) leaves New York City and pulls into Savannah (same day). That's only 130 odd miles away and it previously terminated here, WHY NOT? The Sunset Limited/Gulf Wind Route runs from New Orleans to Los Angeles and they talk about terminating it in Orlando! Why not Jax? We are the ones with the terminal, can't we point out the economies of sending it's cars South not only to Orlando, but Tampa, West Palm, and Miami, all by switching them into a New York - Florida train in JAX? Amtrak has already said when the FEC comes on line, they plan to split the trains here...Naturally, that's what we had a huge station for, but who knows? Jacksonville - Atlanta, talked about for years and what have WE done? NOTHING! Recently under Bush budget cuts Amtrak cut our connections with Gainesville and Ocala, as well as a through route to Tampa. The budget cuts are long gone and what do we have to show for it? NOTHING!  I met with Greyhound officers the other day and found there is only a single schedule running from Jax to Gainesville and no possible return on the same day. Oh, but it only runs Thursday-Monday. Meanwhile a railroad track runs from downtown Jacksonville to Baldwin to 23Rd street in Gainesville, and the right-of-way exists all the way to the Swamp, have we? Not even worth saying, OF COURSE WE HAVEN'T.

Forget about the ease of travel with these ventures, think in terms of economic gain and a huge boon in new high paying jobs, infrastructure, retail, food service, laundry, hotel, floral, fuel, mechanical, AC/HEAT, electronics, electrical, etc... HUGE. But that's okay, we've done NOTHING and we're really good at it. Damn Jacksonville!

What will it take?

OCKLAWAHA (Rant number 4,201,491 in a series)
Let's finish that blog series UJ!