SunRail: The Great Train Robbery of 2009

[FayeforCure]

CSX will actually get direct payments of $491 million according to page 4 of
http://www.metroplanorlando.com/site/upload/documents/CommuterRail_MythsFacts_June2008.pdf

CSX will also get indirect payments this way:
FDOT will construct five grade separations on the S-line at $214 million

Additionally there will be $615 million in capital costs to construct 17 station stops, parking lots etc. including $65 for double-tracking to provide for passenger rail operations as 41 miles of freight operations is currently on single track.

Hence the $1.2 billion cost tag excluding operations and maintenance which is estimated at another $1.2 billion over 30 years, for a whopping total of $2.4 billion.

And here is another excellent piece of game-playing:

And while the bill easily passed the House on Monday, it barely made it out of its first Senate committee.

It cleared the Senate Transportation Committee in a 5-4 vote only after the Senate president had substituted a pro-rail senator for another senator who was absent because of a heart condition. Without that substitution, the bill would have failed on a 4-4 vote.

http://www.theledger.com/article/20091207/NEWS/912075069/1338?tc=autorefresh

[thelakelander]

Faye, I would not be suprised if the Senate kills it.  If they do, I hope the HSR thing dies with it.

CSX will also get indirect payments this way:
FDOT will construct five grade separations on the S-line at $214 million

That's not an indirect payment to CSX, those are FDOT road projects.  Whether there is an at-grade crossing or overpass, its not going to impact CSX's decision on how many trains they run on their lines.

Additionally there will be $615 million in capital costs to construct 17 station stops, parking lots etc. including $65 for double-tracking to provide for passenger rail operations as 41 miles of freight operations is currently on single track.

It could be worse, sort of like paying $2 billion for a slightly longer HSR line between Tampa and Orlando.  Capital costs are associated with any transportation project.  At $10 million/mile, that's not really that expensive for 61 miles of commuter rail.  If you think its too high, tell the state to go "no frills."  After all, they won't be running commuter rail to the point of where they need a 61-mile double tracked line right a way.

Hence the $1.2 billion cost tag excluding operations and maintenance which is estimated at another $1.2 billion over 30 years, for a whopping total of $2.4 billion.

Lol, you can't be serious.  How much will 30 years of annual O & M costs add to HSR?  My guess is a lot more than $2.4 billion.

[fsujax]

If they kill it, forget high speed and commuter rail in the State of Florida! Watch our money go else where (i.e. Charlotte) I wouldn't even be surprised if we lost out on the applications for Amtrak service. What a shame this would all be.

[thelakelander]

It would be a shame but Florida would deserve everything that it gets.

[CS Foltz]

fsujax and lake.........I have to agree! There appears to be too much wheeling and dealing, not to mention the disparity between all of the figures being bandeed about. Easiest way I see that I see is tell CSX take a hike and fund trackage for just what is need for a no frills operation!

[thelakelander]

I don't see how CSX is the bad guy.  Its their property.  Either you want it or you don't and if you do, its up to you to negotiate a deal that you are comfortable with.  So the problem should be with those representing the tax payers, not the private entity.

[CS Foltz]

lake you have a point, but as I pointed out..........nothing keeps us from putting in tracks ourselves! Fair Market value is determined by CSX not the negotiators. I do have reservations about them having their own axes to grind and wish this were a case for Federal Mediation. There appears to be too many logs in the fires and no one is stepping back to take an objective look at things!A Monopoly is a monoply and whoever has one will fight to keep it.........that doesn't do the public much good at all!

[thelakelander]

lake you have a point, but as I pointed out..........nothing keeps us from putting in tracks ourselves!

Primarily costs.  We can't even pass a deal to buy existing track and ROW at 10 million/mile.  No way, we're going to get a plan passed that will cost 10 times as much. 

[Lunican]

The biggest lie that Paula Dockery has perpetuated is not the cost of the project, but the terms of liability agreement. She has led everyone to believe that CSX demanded a deal that indemnifies them from all liability, no matter what happens. This is not true.

FACTS:
CSX is not immune from liability. Rather CSX and FDOT will share liability in the corridor on a no fault basis. FDOT and CSX have maintained a no-fault contractual allocation of liability and up to $125 million in coverage in South Florida on the Tri-Rail system since 1988. FDOT seeks to do the same thing in Central Florida. This is consistent with 23 other commuter rail systems around the country dealing with liability in a shared rail corridor. The Tri-Rail agreement from 1988 and the proposed Central Florida agreement from 2007 provide a contractual allocation of liability, irrespective of fault, as follows:
o If only a CSX freight train is involved in an accident, then CSX pays 100% of injury or damage (except for any passengers or invitees in the corridor)
o If only a Commuter train is involved in an accident, then FDOT pays 100% of injury or damage.
o If both a CSX train and a Commuter train collide, then CSX pays 100% of all freight damage including any people on its trains, FDOT pays for 100% of the commuter train and passenger damage including people within the corridor, and CSX and FDOT each pay 50% of any third party damage resulting outside the corridor.
o FDOT maintains $5 million self insurance retention and $125 million of excess insurance in South Florida, inclusive of punitive damages. The agreements provide for adding Central Florida to the insurance and increasing the coverage to $200 million (nationally, coverage ranges from $200-$500 million for similar transit systems).

[mvp]

SunRail passed Senate

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/orl-bk-senate-passes-sunrail-story-120809,0,3655246.story

[thelakelander]

That's a shocker!

[CS Foltz]

Egads...........both HSR and SunRail in one fell swoop? The Gods have smiled on us right? I am speechless!

[tufsu1]

no HSR yet CS

[FayeforCure]

SunRail passed Senate

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/orl-bk-senate-passes-sunrail-story-120809,0,3655246.story

From that article:

Following an 11th-hour deal with labor unions, the Senate pushed through a rail package – which paves the way for the $1.2 billion SunRail – after just a few hours of debate.

Shortly before the Senate vote, Florida AFL-CIO President Mike Williams issued a statement saying the unions had struck a deal to preserve labor jobs on Tri-Rail and SunRail. That cleared the way for reluctant Senate Democrats to vote for it.

"Our goal of stopping the displacement of federally-qualified railroad workers from Florida's passenger and freight railroads will not be compromised as experienced rail workers will continue to maintain Florida's railways," Williams said.

Not everyone was on board, however. Among the "no" votes was Sen. Nan Rich, D-Weston, who called the bill a bad deal. For the Orlando commuter line, the state is paying CSX $432 million for 61.5 miles of track and shielding the private company from some lawsuits in the event of a train crash.

[thelakelander]

So you're for it now?