Surprise! There wasnt a Plan already in Place for the Greenway!

[stephendare]

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-11-30/story/east_coast_greenways_route_through_jacksonville_unclear

There is no safe and easy way to ride a bicycle from Jacksonville to Key West or Savannah.

That's a problem Dennis Markatos-Soriano is now trying to solve.

He is the executive director of the East Coast Greenway Alliance, a nonprofit that is trying to build an urban path from Calais, Maine, to Key West that goes through all the major cities on the East Coast. The path will be for non-motorized transportation like hiking and cycling, and about a quarter of the 3,000-mile route is already open and free of vehicles.

Although the organization plans for the path go through Jacksonville, they're not really sure how that will happen. The trail is projected to enter Florida on the Bald Eagle Ferry that goes from St. Marys, Ga., to Fernandina Beach. Amelia Island is also working on a 20-mile bike path from Talbot Island to Fort Clinch.

But the trail is uncertain from Amelia Island to St. Augustine, where an existing trails picks up.

Markatos-Soriano was in Jacksonville this month as part of a 200-mile bike ride to survey the area. He also met with Mayor John Peyton and transportation officials with the city and state. The Times-Union spoke to Markatos-Soriano and Herb Hiller, the Greenway's Florida and Georgia consultant.

How will Jacksonville benefit if this path is linked to the city?

There are numerous benefits to having easily accessible trails. You don't always have to drive to get to a fitness center. You can get exercise by biking.

It's also important to have an alternative in the years ahead to cars. The East Coast Greenway is a national trail, but it also can be a local route people can travel within their communities. Having bike paths in an area is a community asset that can help raise property values and make an area more desirable to live in.

How do you get a workable bike path through Jacksonville, and where do you see it going?

We want the trail to roughly follow Florida A1A down the coast of Florida, and we're working with the local governments to find a way to do that. But the other challenge we have is figuring out how to get into downtown Jacksonville. There's not an obvious way to do it. I don't think it's realistic to build a bike path off of a road, so we're probably looking at doing it on an existing roadway like Beach Boulevard. We'd also like to create a loop for downtown that would allow the bike path to connect with the Baldwin Trail.

Does the political will exist to do this?

Peyton has been supportive and the political climate seems favorable right now. The high gas prices of 2008 led to a lot of people looking into cycling. The challenge right now is coming up with a workable plan, and we hope to have meetings in Florida in 2010 to discuss how the trail will work.

Why hasn't this been done yet?

Our focus until now has really been on what Hiller calls "the low hanging fruit" - parts of the route where the solution has been fairly easy to implement. Most of the easy parts are done and the portions that haven't been constructed lack an easy solution. Jacksonville is one of those parts.

What does this pathway look like from Maine to Key West?

At least 25 percent of the path will be greenways that are off of roads. The rest is a mix of bike lanes that are part of a road and areas where it has not yet been determined how the path will work. We prefer to have trails that are not connected to roads, but obviously there are many areas where a greenway won't work.

How much of this path is constructed?

In Florida the route is 28 percent complete, 26 percent is in development, 42 percent is in public control but awaiting development and about 4 percent hasn't been identified.

Is there a timetable for getting it done?

It's hard to create a timetable because we work with so many state and local governments. We don't build the trails; we work with governments that get it done. Ideally, we'd like to see most of the path complete around 2020.

Is there another city that could be a role model for the greenway in Jacksonville?

One of the cities we've seen great progress in is New York City. It was not always accessible, but now over 90 percent of our path is complete in the city.

[buckethead]

I would love to cycle safely, from Jax to Maine. What a wonderful journey that would be.

[tufsu1]

That's because the greenway is the wish/dream of a non-profit group....you'll find there are lots of regional/national greenways that are proposed...and just like other development and infrastructure projects, many never come to be.

[Reaper man]

There is no safe and easy way to ride a bicycle from Jacksonville to Key West or Savannah.

Savannah?!  Good god, that would be one hell of a bike trip.

Then again, most I've even done was 30 miles on a mountain bike, and my knees got extremely sore, but hey, at least I can do 30.  Most people couldn't even do 10.

[north miami]

As far as bringing Downtown Jacksonville in to the loop I assure you this:
Herb Hiller, a close friend of mine, is very familiar with Downtown and environs,on a personal basis.

It's all about priority.

[tufsu1]

maybe so....although I'm sure folks could make compelling arguments for the Outer Beltway and its effect on quality of life for folks in Clay County

But I digress....just learned today about a new blackbear trail in the Ocala area....this is in addition to the trail w/ overpasses you can see on I-75 and I-95, which was created when the corss-Florida barge canal was dropped....have you heard of this one?

Point is there are so many of these designated "trails" al over the country...and many of them wouldn't even be known by people who live near them.

[Charles Hunter]

Here's the North Florida TPO page on "Greenways and Trails"
http://nftpo.com/index.php?id=39

[Ocklawaha]

maybe so....although I'm sure folks could make compelling arguments for the Outer Beltway and its effect on quality of life for folks in Clay County

But I digress....just learned today about a new blackbear trail in the Ocala area....this is in addition to the trail w/ overpasses you can see on I-75 and I-95, which was created when the corss-Florida barge canal was dropped....have you heard of this one?

I'd love to hear a compelling argument FOR the Beltway TU.  The dips and  doodle manner which it wanders Southwest from the Penny Farms area to the Shand's Bridge is enough to prove it will serve no through traffic. Also how many Clay, Orange Park, Middleburg, residents are commuting to Cecil everyday now that the base is gone? Maybe they all work at Publix or the Winn-Dixie Warehouses? In the other direction, if you wanted to use it to move on to 95 South, you better exit after the Shand's and take off on country roads, SR16 or STJ13/SR13, the new route is taking you toward the Avenues. How many folks in Green Cove Springs or Penny Farms, or even Middleburg, commute to the Avenues everyday? This is far from a reality, not to mention (AGAIN) destroying Clay County's best airport and maybe our only shot at getting the Navy (CECIL) back in the area.

Now I'll digress... (he's wandering)... The JTA hovercraft is sitting on the apron of the "Reynolds Airport" in Green Cove Springs, rotting away, looks like no one has touched it in a long, long time. Also, whoever it was that told us Green Cove's old Naval Station runways were "gone" and all of the asphalt was busted up, apparently was at the wrong airport! IT'S ALL CONCRETE! Maybe the runways are asphalt, but there is an infinite sea of concrete where the hangers are (I was there last week).

Also TU, the Cross - Florida barge canal did NOT intersect I-95 anywhere except under the Fuller Warren. The whole thing is now the cross - Florida Greenway. http://www.dep.state.fl.us/GWT/guide/regions/crossflorida/cross_florida.htm

There is no safe and easy way to ride a bicycle from Jacksonville to Key West or Savannah.

Savannah?!  Good god, that would be one hell of a bike trip.

Then again, most I've even done was 30 miles on a mountain bike, and my knees got extremely sore, but hey, at least I can do 30.  Most people couldn't even do 10.

I used to do 10-15 daily when I lived near the rail trail in Lake Mary, the guys that really blow me away are the boys in the Andes... They'll ride the same several hundred miles and all the while up to 14,000+ feet down to a river and right back up again. Damn, IRON LEGS.

As for Savannah, there is an abandoned CSX line from roughly Kingsland Georgia (just west of St. Marys) to near Savannah. The bridges are still intact which tells me there may be some eyes on it for the future, maybe SEHSR? I suspect as much as it is the shortest route. Rails to Trails could probably make hay with that then someday, either move away from it, or perhaps a joint rail-bike corridor... Sure would be a pretty trip.

As far as bringing Downtown Jacksonville in to the loop I assure you this:
Herb Hiller, a close friend of mine, is very familiar with Downtown and environs,on a personal basis.

It's all about priority.

Development of a joint bike-rail route from Kingsland, South into Jax and around the "S" line to Myrtle or Beaver is certainly a possibility when we look at funding for Commuter Rail North. It just gives us another whole arena to shop for grants, seek volunteers and create a more livable city.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

I agree, AIA is nice, but its pretty far from the actual city.  If these guys are looking to get through Jax, the potential commuter rail corridors and perhaps Philips Highway would be the way to go.  A decent multi-use path system could tie in with the entire East Coast Greenway and complement commuter rail and BRT transit station areas.  It would be a huge benefit in attracting transit oriented development and enhancing walkability and cycling in Jax.

[north miami]

That's because the greenway is the wish/dream of a non-profit group....you'll find there are lots of regional/national greenways that are proposed...and just like other development and infrastructure projects, many never come to be.

huh?
what a crock.
It has more to do with the fact that our planning community is spending a hella lot of time trying to figure out an unnecessary and sprawl inducing outer beltway, and very little planning for quality of life or a greener future.

We are many years behind in proper policy and effective engagement.....if in fact "not in the loop" then all the more reason to study and perhaps promote.In fact, Herb Hiller is working through the 'proper' channels.

Contact Herb Hiller at   hiller@funport.net
-North Miami

[tufsu1]

I'd love to hear a compelling argument FOR the Beltway TU.  The dips and  doodle manner which it wanders Southwest from the Penny Farms area to the Shand's Bridge is enough to prove it will serve no through traffic. Also how many Clay, Orange Park, Middleburg, residents are commuting to Cecil everyday now that the base is gone? Maybe they all work at Publix or the Winn-Dixie Warehouses? In the other direction, if you wanted to use it to move on to 95 South, you better exit after the Shand's and take off on country roads, SR16 or STJ13/SR13, the new route is taking you toward the Avenues. How many folks in Green Cove Springs or Penny Farms, or even Middleburg, commute to the Avenues everyday? This is far from a reality, not to mention (AGAIN) destroying Clay County's best airport and maybe our only shot at getting the Navy (CECIL) back in the area.

The FDOT report includes 2030 regional travel demand model projections on the Beltway as follows:

I-10 area - 39,000 vehicles per day (vpd)
South Duval area - 58,000 vpd
Blanding Blvd area - 46,000 vpd
SR 16 area - 31,000 vpd
River Crossing -63,000 vpd
I-95 area - 44,000 vpd

Those numbers would imply that more than a few people might find the road useful.

Also, keep in mind that building more roads yields less congestion in the SHORT-TERM....so air quality in the area could actually be improved.

[Overstreet]

............if you wanted to use it to move on to 95 South, you better exit after the Shand's and take off on country roads, SR16 or STJ13/SR13, the new route is taking you toward the Avenues. How many folks in Green Cove Springs or Penny Farms, or even Middleburg, commute to the Avenues everyday? ............

Interesting quesiton. Must be lots of them. I say that cause the traffic through Orangedale is worse than it's ever been. It splits at the flasher and some go to Hwy 210 and some up hwy 13. The 210 crowd mixes with all the housing people there and it gets muddled, but  most of them travel north.

I know four families that live in the "St Johns" area that work in Green Cove Springs area. It works both ways.


In any event I'm reminded of the Green Way in the Orlando area.

[lindab]

Herb Hiller came to our Bicycle Pedestrian committee for the TPO to discuss the plan. It is quite far along, actually. A few problems in our area involve corridors over public lands like Guana State Park and the Talbot Islands Geo Park where the roadway is too narrow to accomodate an extra bike lane.

The whole concept is a very glorious one which should attract different kinds of visitors to Jacksonville. Whether they would want to come in to town would depend on what our town would like to offer them. Some states make a bigger show of support for bicycle riders than Florida does.

[north miami]

Herb Hiller came to our Bicycle Pedestrian committee for the TPO to discuss the plan. It is quite far along, actually. A few problems in our area involve corridors over public lands like Guana State Park and the Talbot Islands Geo Park where the roadway is too narrow to accomodate an extra bike lane.

The whole concept is a very glorious one which should attract different kinds of visitors to Jacksonville. Whether they would want to come in to town would depend on what our town would like to offer them. Some states make a bigger show of support for bicycle riders than Florida does.

****  Herb Hiller contact info: hiller@funport.net    cell 386 547 0395  ****
P.S.-Florida,Northeast Florida & environs,is one of the absolute best places to cycle.Go figure.  N.Mia.