Hogans Creek Park Master Plan

[GideonGlib]

If someone brought up this point and I missed it, I am sorry, but is no one else seeing it as a problem that they are taking a brand new 3 acre dog park, that is actually now not only seeing neighborhood folks in Springfield and Downtown using it daily, but also bringing in folks from Arlington, San Marco, and Riverside and condensing it to a small plot on the edge of this plan?

I use this dog park 4-5 day a week, every day I am there and talk to people from all over town who are just now discovering it, and loving it. People through this park see Springfield in a new light, and it is constantly giving me an opportunity to talk up the neighborhood and other assets like Uptown Market, 3 Layers, Walkable nieghborhood, etc...

My point in this large park, nicer than the dog park in Atlanta's Piedmont Park is working to bring people and life into Springfield, if anything it should be expanded not made smaller and relegated to a far corner of this new plan. Any new plan should look at this as something that is working and expand upon that idea as a way to make this park system even more accessible to more people (and dogs).

[GideonGlib]

When we first started going months back, it was few, it seems now as word is getting out every time that we go we are seeing more and more people there. Last time we went (Wednesday) there were at least 15 dogs with their owners there (I know at least two were from Riverside and one from San Marco). On an average evening there will be 5-10 Human/Dog park users, and sometimes more, on a nice weekend day the park is well used most of the day.

The Piedmont Dog Park in Atlanta http://www.piedmontpark.org/do/dogpark.html when I lived there was THE place to go for young professionals with pets after work.

It is really exciting to see the Confederate Dog Park here in Springfield starting to become as popular.

To make it smaller and move it would be a disgrace, if anything it should be expanded and promoted even more heavily. This could be part off the puzzle that finally brings Springfield up to it's potential from it's long standing faded glory.

I would write more, and might later, but as it happens Tommy-Peterson (my Italian greyhound) has a play date with Hanna (the mini-pin) and Sharky (the pug mix) (from Avondale) in just a little white.

[Ocklawaha]

Here's the FSCJ Downtown Campus Master Plan:



The creek can be seen in the northeast corner.

Can't see all of the lettering, but is that a "working" transportation building proposed for Pearl St? If so why not the Rosa Parks?

The other one is easier to spot, they want to put a garage so that it will take half of the available Skyway right 0f way! That one without a station is dumb as a bag of glass.

OCKLAWAHA

[GideonGlib]

while...in just a little while.

[fsu813]

Stephen,

Perhaps if you actaully attended any of the various public meetings you could have provided input. Where were you? If you had attended any of them, many of your questions would be answered....not by me, but by the PPS group and the city planners. Since you didn't choose to attend any of them, perhaps you shouldn't be so eager to critisize. Show up next time!

Off the top of my head (from attending the public meetings) here are some answers to your questions and assertions:

1) Van Winkel is on very shakey ground with the city and probably won't get his property back, last I heard. As far as the other private property goes, i'm assuming that the city feels it won't be too much of an issue. If it turns out none of the private propety can used, fine. There are 100 other good visions for the park system. This a rough draft...revisions will inevitabley will be made.

2) You don't have to watch Van Winkels, Hionedes, etc backside for them. They are grown ups. They can speak for themselves.

3) Quick mud? From digesting your quick history of the notorious quick mud epidemic (sarcasm intended), it seems like you are against changing Klutho's orginal design because you are concerned about people dying in the mud. (ha). Ok. Well. Besides that rather outlandish concern, there are other legitimate reasons why one wouldn't want to change Klutho's designs. Quick mud? Not so much. The actual basustrades have nothing to do with quick mud and don't act as a barrier of any kind obviously. The landscape that they lie on might, but not the artifact. Again, plenty of legit reasons why one wouldn't want to move or get rid of the balustrades besides the "Your kids might die!" sensationalism.

4) PPS knows what they are doing. They are a highly successful organization that has transformed urban parks around the world. If you cared to attend any of the meetings (hint hint), you would already know that this is not meant to be a "passive" park system, but an active, destination driven park system. Bike baths, jogging paths, skate park, sports courts, water features, public art, interactive water features & interactive public art, mixed use, bioremediation, Shands & FSCJ usage, public event spaces ARE ALL IN THE PLAN AND HAVE BEEN OPENLY DISCUSSED. If you bothered to attend any of the meetings (broken record, anyone?) you would have known about it and been able to participate.

5) Revisions and research are expected as the process moves forward. A lock/pump system is not out of the question, from what Zoo said earlier. And Zoo would know.



Gideon,

I don't quite understand why they would want to move the dog park either, instead of just incorportating the current one. However, i don't think it would be smaller....just moved 1 block over. While it might not make much sense to me, I don't see the harm in it.



Lake,

I think having them take a look at Shands & FSCJ's "master plans" would be great, if they haven't done so already.

[GideonGlib]

The plan posted clearly showed an area that was only about 1/3 to 1/4 the size of the current dog park . I just think right now it is the only thing really working in that park system (and barring the riverwalk any park in the urban core) I don't see why they would mess with a good thing.

[Lunican]

What happened to the concepts from the visioning process that went on with the Army Corps of Engineers about 5 years ago?

[sheclown]

If the park were say...a historic house that needed restoration... one would have to repair original components, or replace with like materials not changing the style.  The neighborhood is full of people who have taken this kind of care restoring their homes.

 For the city to suggest taking the most significant historical feature of Springfield and drastically altering the style, is insulting to all of the people who love the historic nature of the community. Not to mention a slap in the face to homeowners who have paid extra for appropriate materials and painstakingly brought components back to life. 

As for not going to public meetings?  Sh*t!  Who would have guessed anyone was seriously suggesting removing the canal from the neighborhood?  

Does SPAR support this plan?

[fsu813]

FYI: The creek is still there, along the same path.

Of course there hasn't been a proposal to "move it out of the neighborhood"

Exaggeration = bad.

I certainly don't speak for SPAR, but i'm going to take an educated guess and say they will wait and see what the final plan is before endorsing anything.

[thelakelander]

Before people get too bent out of shape, things need to be put in their proper place.  Overall, the plan has some good elements (a good mix of passive/active uses, etc.), along with several issues that need to be addressed (ex. historic preservation, connectivity, shifting around existing assets, etc.).

However, its VERY preliminary.  The presentation format easily confirms this.  As the process continues, reality will enter the picture and a more well thought out plan will be produced.

[Ocklawaha]

How about out of the box radical? Yes, people do this and clubs all over the world are in city parks... Usually the club agrees to train rides a couple of times a month, and can use the track anytime as long as rides are provided. But it will quickly go WAY BEYOND trains, into tractors, steam boats (yes you CAN ride), automobiles, and I even saw a 14 cylinder Airplane Engine at one of the annual meets. I have belonged to Los Angeles Live Steamers, Oklahoma City Live Steamers, Pacific Northwest Live Steamers, and founded the Jacksonville Live Steamers, which now have a track and "playground" in Bostwick under the name Northeast Florida Live Steamers and Railroaders. Most all of the clubs have web sites so if we're interested, check it out. Here is just a tiny sampling of the (fill in the blank) LIVE STEAMERS.

LOS ANGELES LIVE STEAMERS, PASSENGER TRAIN COMING INTO THE DISNEY LOOP




RIVERSIDE LIVE STEAMERS TRACK, CITY PARK, RIVERSIDE CA.





TOP: IT'S NOT A STANLEY, IT'S A DOBLE     BOTTOM: BRITISH STEAM CAR SEEKING WORLD RECORD + 1,000 MPH





DID SOMEONE SAY "LAKE?"   HOW ABOUT "CREEK?"





OH TOYS AND FUN THINGYS WILL APPEAR TOO...





YOU'LL BE AMAZED WHY THE NEIGHBOR HAS KEPT HIS GARAGE SHUT FOR 10 YEARS!

OOP'S, WTF? HOW DID THIS GET ON HERE? YES LUNICAN, IT'S A REAL RAILROAD!

OCKLAWAHA

[Lunican]

Here you go Ock...

http://www.youtube.com/v/7xq6U-wbgOQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&hd=1

[chris farley]

My God how beautiful, my brother in England would go crazy for this, his vactions are done riding trains to anywhere they take him

[Springfielder]

that is just so cool, and looks like it's a lot of fun

[Ocklawaha]

There is something magic about this machinery, and the children (of all ages) that build and play with them learn skills and craftsmanship of old school excellence. Engineering, design, construction, landscape, metal work, welding, math calculations, and fine woodworking just some of the fields this could open to our citizens. Since it's a International Brotherhood (IBLS) Live Steamers, there is much hands on, sharing, caring, and walking newbies through the ropes. Craftsmen passing skills down to others in a traditional style, slow perfection. Putting this in a city park, as done around the globe, would expose Jacksonville to a world of wonders.

Try these sites, including a couple for your brother in the UK.

http://www.steamdays.co.uk/index.php?page=stock

http://www.railsusa.com/links/Live_Steam_Mini_Rail/more12.html

http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/

http://www.livesteam.net/

http://www.steamingpriest.com/2008/07/26/international-brotherhood-of-live-steamers/  (for the IBLS)

Don't suffer sticker shock, it's not cheap until you learn to build from scratch. Sometimes a rare used piece comes along in a bargin deal. There is also a whole area of toy steam engines either antique or reproduction that knocks the price down to the hundreds. Otherwise better sell the BMW! The hobby is incredible fun and we have at least 60+ guys and gals right here and many more who would join in if exposed to it. Yes, women are LIVE STEAMERS too.

Won't you guys join me in pushing this into a Jacksonville park? We once "almost" had the JLS club in Hanna Park, then the deal was killed in the infamous insurance crisis of the 80's.

OCKLAWAHA