Replace Outer Beltway with New Link To Gainesville, I-75, Tampa

[stjr]

Rail would be great for student travel.  Cheaper than air, no need to have a car at school, can carry more luggage to and from the dorm than by air, can "drink and drive" with no consequences, Mom and Dad don't have to worry about teenage driving on two lane rural roads at night or falling asleep at the wheel during a late night drive, etc.  Students siblings and friends could do the same.

Faculty coming to the Jax airport or making "big city" day trips for conferences or presentations could productively work during the ride on the rails rather than lose 3 hours round trip having to drive.

Likewise, for visitors to UF from Jax.

I wonder what it would  take to run a rail line from FEC to CSX connecting by running along side the existing Shands Bridge?

[CS Foltz]

Engineering is pretty cut and dried since it is pretty shallow.....I would bet that a new bridge is not on the wish list of NTP.....if it were then it would be just a question of time before it would happen...........maybe someone can put a bug in their ears? New Bridge with rail capabilities!

[Captain Zissou]

FYI...the state has been making gradual upgrades to US 301 from Ocala up to Jax....

There are also plans for a potential bypass of Starke.

That bypass would kill any chance of Rail.  That would cut the trip time down by 20 minutes at least. 

However, if we could get a train into Gainesville, that could spark a streetcar line down University.  University connects from the rail line west through downtown, through campus, down to University & 34th, which could become a great area for a student TOD. There is already a strong corridor of development along University, but this would push it way over the top.  This would really put G-ville on the map.  I would say this development alone is worth the advocacy for a rail line from J-Ville to G-Ville.

[jandar]

Gainesville could greatly benefit from street car rail down University.

Open a few parking lots/garages and students could park and get to class a whole lot easier.

[tufsu1]

Should supporting rail transit to/from/in Gainesville mean that the residents and businesses of Starke should continue to suffer the negative impacts of "external" traffic through their city?

[Captain Zissou]

Suffer.....? They seem to be doing just fine.  Looks to me like they're capitalizing off the influx of people.

[Joe]

Yeah, despite the brutal traffic through Starke, it sure seems like 301 is kind of the lifeblood of their tax base.

I know they tried to build a bypass around Starke several years back, and local businesses had a fit because they feared Starke would die without the direct traffic supporting all the gas stations, fast food, etc.

[Ocklawaha]

Not so long ago, and not so far away, I present THE GULF COAST SPECIAL, in Gainesville, for your viewing pleasure.


1969, two years before Amtrak killed the train and about 2 decades short of abandonment of the through route to St. Petersburg and Tampa, via the center of the State.

stjr, I don't think the traffic is going to support your Shands Railroad Bridge, just not that much demand from WGV to Green Cove Springs! HEY! Maybe a SKYWAY! Just for the present, any Gainesville train would have to be a bit long in the schedule and a tad circuitous in it's route. The benefit is we pick up greater metropolitan Burnett's Lake and Alachua.

Should supporting rail transit to/from/in Gainesville mean that the residents and businesses of Starke should continue to suffer the negative impacts of "external" traffic through their city?

In case you've missed it, the Army Base being upgraded to a training center and operated full time has created a mini-boom in Starke. Starke would be the junction point of any train to Gainesville today and would probably feel an increase of traffic as better access would allow soldiers to come into town or go to the "big city". Quite a few new hotels are within walking distance of the depot, which is STILL in use, albeit for freight service only.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

I agree that Starke definitely benefits from the through traffic, but there still are some negative impacts....these should be the primary issues in whether or not a bypass should be supported.

The issue of a train to/from/in Gainesville should not be much of a factor.

[north miami]

We are past the days when dotted lines could be drawn across wide swaths of area in the 'planning' and 'promotion' of vast roadways.

Just because a given acreage or parcel is 'undeveloped' does not mean that it is up for grabs ot unspoken assumptions.
The greatest aspect of 'NIMBY' is in the fact the great number of 'B'- backyards so to speak.We have in fact 'grown',and the liberal dose of 'B' is testimony.

Earlier attempts at a Jax/Tampa route during the Martinez administration were skillfully fought back by Gainesville area interests. (Some would say "activist",or my favorite: "Extremist").
Jacksonville is likely one of the last regions to wring it's neck with a beltway.

Now,even around Starke we see an increase in persons who have selected the area for acreage,recreational farming.The woods are full of such folks,just as seen in the earlier Gainesville experience.
And then there are state and regional planning initiatives,such as the "O2O' project-an abitious conservation/recreation plan linking Ocala National Forest with Osceola National Forest.It's like one big game of chess.Recall the long established Clay County beltway location dream was modified due to subsequent conservation lands purchases.The list is endless.

As a practical matter, exisiting major arterial function shopuld be guarded.Tough to do due to local political pressures....Blanding Blvd. a perfect poster child.

[tufsu1]

Jacksonville is likely one of the last regions to wring it's neck with a beltway.

Don't tell that to the folks in Orlando who are just finishing their beltway....or those in the Tampa Bay area studying a "beltway" east of I-75

[north miami]

.............note: "one of the last"-

[stjr]

stjr, I don't think the traffic is going to support your Shands Railroad Bridge, just not that much demand from WGV to Green Cove Springs!

Ock, just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting such a bridge for WGV to Green Cove, but rather as a link in Jax-I-295/I-95/US1/Mandarin-Gainesville-Tampa, as opposed to Jax-Baldwin-Gainesville-Tampa.  Connecting through the Jax southside would bring on a much greater population and be of more value to them than the alternate would be to those residents who are already closer to US301 and I-10/I-75.  It would also be attractive to those in St. Augustine/St. Johns County and Clay County and offer them an incentive and solace to give up on the Outer Beltway through their counties.

[stjr]

Re: High Speed Rail:  I think the route from Tampa northward should go direct to Jax, not follow I-75 to I-10 as shown.  We will just create another bypass of Jax between Tampa and Atlanta and delete a golden chance to greatly improve our connections with Tampa, Atlanta, AND Gainesville.  Jax leaders should not let the interstate route history repeat itself to the detriment of our economy and get out in front of this while they can.

[stjr]

Outer Beltway push continues.  Note quote citing it's needed for economic development with the usual bone toss of an ephemeral promise of relieving traffic on some other road.  Translation:  Build the road so developers can get rich.  Reality: Developers get rich and traffic problems explode, don't disappear.  Urban sprawl machine at full speed.  Environment and greenscape sacrificed.

Northeast Florida residents getting update on beltway
Plans are moving forward, but specifics are still not decided.

   * By Larry Hannan
   * Story updated at 3:48 AM on Saturday, Feb. 20, 2010

If everything goes according to plan, the First Coast Outer Beltway from Interstate 10 in Duval County to Interstate 95 in St. Johns County could be built and open to the public sometime in 2015.

That's the best-case scenario that assumes a private contractor will want to build it, gets it done on time and the project doesn't get bogged down in permitting issues.

Considering the state wants a private contractor to spend at least $1.8 billion of its own money to build and maintain the toll road and that the St. Johns Water Management District has several concerns about the project, delays seem likely.

In the next two weeks, people will get a chance to look at the Outer Beltway plans when the Florida Department of Transportation holds four public meetings in Clay, Duval and St. Johns counties to discuss the project and seek public comment.

Cecil Commerce Parkway, Branan Field Road and Baxley Road will be part of the Beltway when it's finished. But Project Manager Brandi Vittur said there are multiple alternatives for how the roadway could be built. All will be shown and discussed during the public meetings.

The Transportation Department says the road could end at I-95 between County Road 210 and International Golf Parkway. But it is also considering ending it at the future Florida 9B, which is farther north on I-95.

The state has planned to build a new, 65-foot bridge near the existing Shands Bridge south of Green Cove Springs because the existing bridge is too low. But it hasn't ruled out building the beltway's bridge north of Green Cove Springs.

Because of concerns about damaging the Bayard Point Conservation area, the Transportation Department has come up with several ways the road could run west of the St. Johns River. The plan is being examined by staff from the St. Johns Water Management District, which must grant a permit to the project before it proceeds, spokeswoman Teresa Monson said.

Clay Commissioner Doug Conkey said he expects the road to be built south of Green Cove Springs and connect to I-95 between County Road 210 and International Golf Parkway. The Clay and St. Johns county commissions have both said they prefer that be the option.

Getting the beltway built is essential to creating economic development in Clay County, and it will also help ease congestion on other roads like Blanding Boulevard, Conkey said.

After the public meetings, the Transportation Department will study whether it's feasible for a private contractor to build the Outer Beltway and make a profit by operating it as a toll road during the next 40 to 50 years. The state doesn't have the money to build the road and wants to hire a private firm to build and maintain it while charging a yet-to-be-determined toll to recoup its investment.

If it's determined money can be made in the deal, the Transportation Department will go forward. The study should be complete by this summer, Project Manager Jim Knight said.

Officials also will likely face questions on why the road needs to be tolled. At several previous meeting Clay residents criticized the plan to toll the road.

Middleburg resident Joseph Demers said he would probably attend one of the meetings.

"We definitely need this road, but I don't want to have to pay a toll to go to the grocery store," he said, while adding that he hoped to learn more about how the tolling would work.

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Beltway options â€" Florida Department of Transportation officials want citizen feeback on whether the First Coast Outer Beltway should have a bridge over the St. Johns River north or south of Green Cove Springs. They also want feedback on where the road should meet with I-95 in St. Johns County. (Note: In the paper, the half dozen or so option maps were published but not included on the T-U web site.)

Giving input

 The Outer Beltway will be discussed at four meetings in the next two weeks. Information on the project can be found at www.sjrbridge.com. People wishing to comment on the project can speak at the meeting or e-mail Brandi Vittur at brandi.vittur@dot.state.fl.us.

The public meeting times are:

- Monday, Feb. 22 World Golf Village Renaissance Resort 500 S. Legacy Trail St. Augustine Doors open: 3 p.m. Presentation: 4:30 p.m. with a repeat at 7 p.m.

- Thursday, Feb. 25 St. Johns Community College Thrasher Horne Conference Center 283 College Drive Orange Park Doors open: 3 p.m. Presentation: 4:30 p.m. with a repeat at 7 p.m.

- Tuesday, March 2 Clay County Fairgrounds 2496 W. Florida 16 Green Cove Springs Doors open: 3 p.m. Presentation: 4:30 p.m. with a repeat at 7 p.m.

- Thursday, March 4 Cecil Conference Center 12541 Lake Newman St. Jacksonville Doors open: 4:30 p.m. Presentation: 6:30 p.m.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-02-20/story/northeast_florida_residents_getting_update_on_beltway