A Lesson for the Outer Beltway dreamers

[jandar]

There is a lot of right of way already owned by the state.
The FDOT owns right of way from I-10 to Blanding Blvd, enough for a 4 lane highway and service road.

http://www.fdotfirstcoastouterbeltway.com/forum_docs/Handout%206%20-%20Right%20of%20Way.pdf

Shows current and needed right of way. They need the part from Blanding to Green Cove (but once again, its developers who own a lot of the land there).

So even if you kill the entire expressway, the part from I10 to Blanding would likely be completed.
199 Million needed for the Clay County part, 170 million for the Duval part. The rest of that part has already been built out.

[north miami]

Alternative transportation-
If not by now-when??
After years of involvement and insight with Clay county matters,I sold the family place on Black Creek and moved to Avondale.
I am aware of many 'fleeing' from Clay or making concerted decision to avert Clay location.

[jandar]

We need commuter rail to Fleming Island, that would alleviate a ton of traffic up 17 and from middleburg area.

While some flee into Duval, many are still moving ouot from Duval to St Johns and Clay.
Many of us are screwed either way.
My wife teaches in Clay County. If I moved close to work off of 9A, she would commute.

We need other transportation for all of NE Florida other than more roads.

[Ocklawaha]

When we go rail, remember JTA must be up to the job of redeployment of that large bus fleet so people in places like Flemming Island and Middleburg, will be able to catch a bus in front of their neighborhood that will reliably put them at the train station on time, every time. This is where they should be attending to the proposed BRT routes. I would scrap most of the BRT trunk lines they have drawn, and replace it with rail, BRT then becomes the "secondary mainlines", collectors to heavy population centers, and heavily traveled routes to rail. We must not build any more "Blanding type" bus lanes, until JTA is ready to assume 10-20 minute headways. You just don't build expressways for one bus per hour.

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Ock I agree! Bus Rapid Transit is a contradiction in terms and no bus can run at train speeds or with the passanger loads that a train can haul! Bus versus train is not a contest from either hauling capacity or efficiency!

[thelakelander]

Or economic development.  There's nothing wrong with BRT, when developed to do what it is supposed to do.  The critical flaw occurs when proponents attempt parade it around as an equal alternative to rail.  Instead of being either/or, try complementing by using BRT to funnel riders into rail trunk lines (as Ock stated above).  This solution is superior in terms of transit and economic development.

[stjr]

"Bus" and "rapid" would seem to be impossible to use in a sentence together.  "BRT" is just another marketing term to over promise results we will never see.  Just like the futuristic sounding "$ky-high-way" that has delivered a dud of inefficient, unreliable, useless technology, not the space age advancement in travel it's name would imply.

[buckethead]

"Bus" and "rapid" would seem to be impossible to use in a sentence together.  "BRT" is just another marketing term to over promise results we will never see.  Just like the futuristic sounding "$ky-high-way" that has delivered the depths of dispair, not the crsytal blue sky days it's name would imply.

Lest we forget: Greenland was another such misnomer.

[north miami]

In the late 1970's/early 80's Clay County Planning Director Dick Post warned that we were 'buying the farm' .....through unwise land use decisions on the local level,which would compromise transportation and a host of regional interests.

[CS Foltz]

In case no one has ever notice........History has a habit of repeating itself!

[north miami]

OK-so it's a given.....many should reconsider their move to Clay County.

I have been steering folk away for a long time.

This is a needed service- to 'predict the future' via knowledge of obscure "planning" process- letting people know the details of the fact that what they see...and are sold....will not be what you get.

Bumper sticker:  Welcome to the First Coast-where Miami begins!!

[north miami]

The reason the southern route has staying power is simple: Jack Myers/Reinhold Corp.
We had to work mightily to keep the alignment out of the Ravines Conservation area,including brazen bid to WMD by Myers to swap lands for Ravines,which we fought back and that is why the original gentle arc one depicted has become gerrymandered but a southerly route is retained.

All one has to do is track key Reinhold land holdings and events.
Florida Trend pronounced Jack Myers "the man to watch" as he transitioned from Disney and focused on the Clay land holdings.

Also interesting to track speculative land purchases in anticipation of the extension of Kingsley Avenue to B/C- this did not happen but the two separate parcels with boundary on the proposed Kingsley centerline are still a part of Clay public records.Official Record Book & page 557-539 and 574-27

For the truly inquisitive- follow land title and learn what happened to parcels along the Brannon/Chaffee;OR Book & Page 270-214,695-285,63-83.
Many blind trusts-hard to reveal the direct players without other narratives revealed.
Or consider the fact that the Trust For Public Lands held option on 1800 acres- for a short time.

This is just for starters.

[north miami]

Yes.

Note too the mantra of "Inevitable Growth" that 'must come".

Beyond that Biz Jornals and the like of very little comprehensive reporting involvement or value.

We assume that the public's government must grant('vest') additional development rights in the face of "inevitable" parade of growth.

Jack Myers & Co. have been key drivers behind the beltway.He made brazen attempt to force the alignment through the Ravines.The more he speaks of his honor the more we take cover and assume the worst.

[north miami]

By the way- the highly touted master plans 'adopted by the county' in fact were sector plans authorized bty the state DCA and subject to DCA review,observations,comments and recs.
Brannon/Chaffe and Lake Asbury.
State had to excercise keen oversight- Florida Wildlife Federation lodged key objections.Had it not been for this involvement the county's face value version would have proven of even more impact.

and- Lake Asbury Sector Plan # 1,after months of activity and contentious public hearings which threatened the predetermined ravines route outcome,including a 'time out' for review by the 'planning pros' at regional Planning Council....was deemed NEVER AUTHORIZED BY DCA.FTU was great in reporting the opening of Sector Plan events...but lagged later.FTU Binyamin Applebaum was frank with me as to the column inches cut and left on the floor at the FTU.
Clay's county Planning director Thad Crowe during all of this had come from Prosser Hallock Planners and Consultants (Nocatee).Prosser Hallock was retained by the county for Lake Assbury #1,with Thad at the helm of the county post.Earlier Brannon/Chaffee Sector Plan saw Genesis Group selected by the county.Genesis group did interject in Assbury on behalf of.....??

[CS Foltz]

Mr Myers appear to be playing both sides of the fence........not to mention making sure his pockets stay full!