New Convenience Store

[thelakelander]

Its also common in San Marco and every other neighborhood in the country that's over 75 years old.  It would be good for Mr. Jones to know the opposition's specific reasons on why they oppose before the hearing.  This way he can present the project in a fashion that immediately alleviates those concerns to the board that will have to officially approve or deny the project.

[Dan B]

Well, I tried to find that out, and I was told, because he needs an exception, and its against the overlay. :-/

[zoo]

Stephen, your relaying of the info from Historic is completely false and I don't appreciate the way you tried to implicate me.

Surprising...

[Johnny]

Dan, Meeks business is a much different issue though. Car washes have to be CCG2, which isn't very common, especially in areas such as this. More often, it would be near a warehouse district...and from my understanding getting them changed to CCG2 is considered highly unlikely (according to the car wash consultant I was working with) and is understandable b/c of what CCG2 would open it up to heavy machinery/industrial type. I do hope Mr. Jones is successful, but I wonder if it's going to happen. I didn't realize it was only 2+/- years ago that it was denied and if they are already showing opposition, there's probably not going to be much that will change this. If the board approves it, should something change and neighbors are upset later, it will look poorly on everyone involved.

[Dan B]

It wasn't denied, it was shut down a day before he opened. According to Silas, he applied for, and was granted the exception in 1995 when he bought the property. He says he did not realize that the exception was only good for a year, and the exception was contingent on him opening his business within that year, which he then didn't do.

[thelakelander]

Well, I tried to find that out, and I was told, because he needs an exception, and its against the overlay. :-/

That's obviously a misunderstanding of the zoning code by whoever told you that and easy to rip to shreads in a public hearing.  To really defeat something, they need to bring more than that weak argument to the table.  A car wash needs an exception all over the city, that's not Springfield overlay specific.  If it were against the overlay, it would not be permissible by exception.

If he comes from a position that sticks with facts instead of opinions, shows the project will be a benefit to the community, that its a historic use of the site and fits in the zoning/comp plans, he could start firing his washer up right after the meeting.

[thelakelander]

Dan, Meeks business is a much different issue though. Car washes have to be CCG2, which isn't very common, especially in areas such as this. More often, it would be near a warehouse district...and from my understanding getting them changed to CCG2 is considered highly unlikely (according to the car wash consultant I was working with) and is understandable b/c of what CCG2 would open it up to heavy machinery/industrial type. I do hope Mr. Jones is successful, but I wonder if it's going to happen. I didn't realize it was only 2+/- years ago that it was denied and if they are already showing opposition, there's probably not going to be much that will change this. If the board approves it, should something change and neighbors are upset later, it will look poorly on everyone involved.

What could change?  Its an exception for a car wash.  So either the car wash would open or it wouldn't.  No other use could be sneak up that isn't already allowed under the CCG-S zoning.

My guess is if a Publix, Applebees or CVS wanted to open up on the corner they would get whatever they needed zoning wise, even though the use would introduce five times as much traffic and noise in the immediate area.

He should present it from the fact that its a historical use of the site.  After all, its been a car wash since 1955, in a commercially zoned corridor (east of the alley).  The precedent has been set.  You can defeat a few knee jerk reactions from a couple of neighbors if you can stick with the facts that proves their concerns are dealt with.  If he is denied, primarily by ill-informed knee jerk reactions that may not be true, it would be unfortunate for the community.  The property is a mess right now and will be a mess long term if no new use goes into it.  That's a drag on everyone's property values in the area.

[Springfield Girl]

Let me preface this by saying I am speaking only my opinion and not that of any organization. There is a reason certain uses were disallowed by zoning. The carwash is just one example of the commercial intrusion that led to the decline of the neighborhood. This fact has been well documented. When I moved here I did so with the understanding that the zoning overlay would protect us from further undesirable uses. When looking at any use I ask myself if I would want to live next door to it. There is an illegal use that has opened on Main St. since the zoning overlay was put in place and Mr. Jones is already using this as an example of why his business should be allowed. It is a very slippery slope. The carwash is not allowed under the zoning laws hence the need for an exception. Who will be next in line with an outlawed use and how many examples will they have to base their exception on?

[thelakelander]

I don't think the car wash exception issue has anything to do with the overlay.  That was the result of a city wide rezoning issue that occurred in 1992.  Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't the overlay come after 1992?

[Johnny]

I agree lake, I don't know that neighbors would even have a say at this point though due to the type of business that zoning would open it up to. If the car wash was flattened by a tornado months later, would the zoning revert back? If not, what would prevent a heavy industrial business from claiming the property and opening shop? Not saying this is likely or possible, just curious since I do not know that information.

[Johnny]

Examples of CCG2 zoned property uses - outside storage or trucks, heavy equipment, warehouse, distributors, etc...

[thelakelander]

^It has already reverted back twice, since 1992, so this example appears to be resolved.

From my understanding of the code and dealing with it on a professional basis in several cities/states for nearly a decade, if an exception is given for a car wash, that would be what's allowed on the property, in addition to everything else that's already allowed under the current zoning (like a convenience store).

[Dan B]

If he works with Content Design and comes up with a good plan, the vast majority of my concerns have been addressed.

[thelakelander]

Examples of CCG2 zoned property uses - outside storage or trucks, heavy equipment, warehouse, distributors, etc...

All of this is irrelevent because its not a CCG-2 zoning and it won't be rezoned to CCG-2.  The zoning would stay CCG-S.  An exception for a car wash under the CCG-S zoning would only allow for a car wash to open under that exception.

[thelakelander]

I guess its time to put the actual application back in immediate view.  A lot of the questions being asked are addressed in the application.

Alright, let's get back on topic and leave the personal insults out of the discussion.  Here is the actual application.  Evaluate the project on the information presented in the actual document and think of ways to possibly better integrate such a project into the commercial corridor.

















Existing Site Plan


Proposed Site Plan