New Convenience Store

thelakelander · October 30, 2009, 10:31:31 PM

Why doesn't Gate have this problem at their convenience stores? Is it safe to assume they don't allow it and maintain their properties? What would keep Mr. Jones from doing the same with his? Any idea on how he maintains his other properties? That would say a lot.

Dan B · October 30, 2009, 10:34:32 PM

im assuming from the equipment that has already been installed that this is a machine wash facility. Does anyone know the desired pricing?

I just got both of my cars done at 5th and Main last weekend for $15 bucks a piece, plus a healthy tip for a straight wash/vacuum. Will the new place be more in line with what you see at a gas station, in the 7-10 range? If so, do we run the risk of losing an existing neighborhood business, that employs almost all Springfielders? Sorta like the big box effect?

Not suggesting this is a reason to be against the new car wash. Just wondering.

strider · October 30, 2009, 10:36:27 PM

I just went through the regular code and the overlay. A car wash requires an exception in both. The overlay is very confusing in regard to automotive uses and I would hesitate to offer an opinion how to interpret it. I definitely would not like to be the one to try to enforce that part of the overlay. I would say, though, that this car wash would not be considered an intensive use so no hour restriction would come from the overlay. So, unless some restrictions, and I didn't see any, come from the standard code, none will apply.

One thing that sort of stuck out to me was that in 1992, an existing car wash had to get an exception to stay in business? Either that is only a small part of the story or someone bought a bill of goods. In any case, I think that is what seems absurd.

So, a lot of the concerns here seems to be who may or may not walk to the store and if they may or may not litter or otherwise do something you do not like? Right now, it is an abandoned building that is waiting to be of some value. As an empty building, it may or may not attract people you do not like. May as well take the chance that this store and car wash end up being of value...it can't be worst than nothing at all.

thelakelander · October 30, 2009, 10:36:36 PM

Quote from: Dan B on October 30, 2009, 10:34:32 PM
im assuming from the equipment that has already been installed that this is a machine wash facility. Does anyone know the desired pricing?

I just got both of my cars done at 5th and Main last weekend for $15 bucks a piece, plus a healthy tip for a straight wash/vacuum. Will the new place be more in line with what you see at a gas station, in the 7-10 range? If so, do we run the risk of losing an existing neighborhood business, that employs almost all Springfielders? Sorta like the big box effect?

Not suggesting this is a reason to be against the new car wash. Just wondering.

The application states that this is a self wash facility. Its just automatic.

Dan B · October 30, 2009, 10:40:15 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on October 30, 2009, 10:31:31 PM
Why doesn't Gate have this problem at their convenience stores? Is it safe to assume they don't allow it and maintain their properties? What would keep Mr. Jones from doing the same with his? Any idea on how he maintains his other properties? That would say a lot.

Its actually not the store, so much as the mode of transport. If I go to the gate station on San Jose, near Sun Beam, the odds are, I did not walk or bike there. There for, when I finish my 60oz fountain drink, and my bag of double stuff cookies, and prepare to toss them out my window, the odds are, I am no longer in Sunbeam, but Beuclerc, or Mandarin, or Lakewood....

A large percentage of the convenience store traffic in Springfield is on foot or bike. For instance, I know that my front yard is about 1 tall boy walking distance from the blue front, and about one fortune cookie from Chans.

I digress. One of the reasons we all love Springfield so much is because it is a walkable and bikable neighborhood. This may be an instance where you have to take the good with the bad, and resist the urge to beat the litter-bug over the head with their own refuse.

thelakelander · October 30, 2009, 10:45:48 PM

I've also seen some pretty nice and well maintained convenience stores in urban cities. I'm sure I've probably posted pics of a few on this site somewhere. Imo, if the owner is dedicated to maintaining his/her property, a store is an asset.

Unfortunately, the off-site litter-bug issue can happen with any place who allows their goods to be purchased for take out (even the nice restaurants). Maybe including something like a nice landscaped outdoor seating area for customers is something that can cut down on this? Something like that would also be more pedestrian friendly and fit into the long term goals of the commercial corridor.

Dan B · October 30, 2009, 10:49:16 PM

I honestly dont have a problem with the car wash. It seems to me, in fact, that if walkability is what we are wanting, and getting people on Main Street Sidewalks, a one stop shop seems like a bad idea. People would be far more likly to walk over to city kids for a cone, if they couldn't buy a candy bar at the car wash.

Dan B · October 30, 2009, 10:58:01 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on October 30, 2009, 10:45:48 PM
I've also seen some pretty nice and well maintained convenience stores in urban cities. I'm sure I've probably posted pics of a few on this site somewhere. Imo, if the owner is dedicated to maintaining his/her property, a store is an asset.

To your point, Springfield could use a nice quicky mart.

The store at 3rd and Market makes an honest effort, and the family that own is are super nice, but my wife thinks the place is creepy. Also, someone just dumped a ton of money into the Speedway at 8th and Perry. I havent been in yet, but it looks a lot better, and they are really lighting the place up.

I 100% agree with lake, you should always try to bring people to the table to see if you can find common ground, that will help them expand thier business in a positive way, and help the neighborhood move forward on the right track.

Sadly, it doesnt always work out.

As I stated before, when I was on the SPAR board, I spent many hours trying to convince First Coast Energy (they own the shell station downtown and at 8th and Blvd) that it would be worth thier time to put a nice facility at 8th and Blvd, especially considering the hiway traffic, shands traffic, the new VA facility traffic, on top of neighborhood traffic, if we suddenly had a nice, safe feeling store.

We pulled in all sorts of people into the meeting, including a board member from Shands, and even the manager of the NW trust fund to talk about the money that they city could help with...

They didnt feel it was a direction they wanted to go. :-/

thelakelander · October 30, 2009, 11:17:36 PM

Quote from: Dan B on October 30, 2009, 10:49:16 PM
I honestly dont have a problem with the car wash. It seems to me, in fact, that if walkability is what we are wanting, and getting people on Main Street Sidewalks, a one stop shop seems like a bad idea. People would be far more likly to walk over to city kids for a cone, if they couldn't buy a candy bar at the car wash.

People said the same thing about the casinos in Detroit when the opened. Yes Greektown has its own restaurants. On the first trip there, you may end up spending all your money inside the facility. However, on the trip there you are exposed to all the authentic local pizza spots across street. With that exposure, chances are you will probably make a return trip to the area to try one of those spots out.

The same thing goes with a self contained car wash facility. You may be on a mission to wash your car, get some chips and get out of dodge but on your way there you might get a whiff of BBQ passing Jerome Brown's or see a peach cobbler special being advertised at City Kidz. You might not stop at these places on the same day, but being exposed to them may make you return on another day.

cindi · October 31, 2009, 02:05:11 AM

QuoteSo, a lot of the concerns here seems to be who may or may not walk to the store and if they may or may not litter or otherwise do something you do not like? Right now, it is an abandoned building that is waiting to be of some value. As an empty building, it may or may not attract people you do not like. May as well take the chance that this store and car wash end up being of value...it can't be worst than nothing at all.

Let me start by saying no, I do not own a convenience store, gas station or car wash so I am NOT an expert on that business. I do happen to have the pleasure of being within a block of two of them. The Shell station, which has an old dilapidated car wash by the way, so maybe they are not an expert either and the "new improved Speedway". as to the "who may or may not walk to the store and if they may or may not litter or otherwise do something you do not like?" The guy that lives behind me got shot in the back while walking down the alley to the Shell by two guys that came from the shell, and the armed robberies are routine (those people get a vote of "nope, don't like"). we sit on the porch almost every night and watch guys bolt out of there after shoplifting (again, nope, don't like). the vast majority of the foot traffic starts in the Colonial apartments (which is where the guy that carjacked us also originated as well other major crimes in hampsterdam), they walk through the alleys collecting everything that isn't nailed down, end up at the shell station - continue with their spread of good deeds, shoplift their nightly wares, leaving a nice trail of garbage along the way. of course it has been a long trip to and fro so they must stop and relieve them selves along the way - that is their right of course and how rude of the "snotty white cracker beech" to shove her beliefs of relieving ones self inside down their throat, and how dare i expect them to pick up their moon pie wrapper, again, it is their right to litter and I am just being mean and rude, they are entitled. the alley beside the shell is covered with broken glass and smells like a giant toilet. (nope, i know, snotty white cracker elitist chick - who the he!! am i expecting people not to piss on my house as they walk by) oh yeh, tell them to not pee in the alley, or throw their garbage in your yard - expect to make a call to the car glass people because they will certainly vandalize your car. and of course, lets not forget that it serves as a nice little ralley point for all the hookers and dealers at night. so to sum up my little rant. NOPE, don't really care for what walks there and YES I do get tired of picking up their crap because they are nasty, lazy and act like our neighborhood is their own personal toilet. this behavior may be acceptable to some and i am sure they are just poor misunderstood chirrens and i should be honored to pick up after them but i don't. the shell station could burn to the ground tomorrow and it would be the biggest improvement that springfield has ever had.
of course i am by no means an expert on this type of business i just get the privilege of picking up and putting up with their crap day in and day out.
rant over.

thelakelander · October 31, 2009, 08:20:15 AM

It seems like your rant is more towards criminals than it is to a car wash facility. You do know that criminals also like to hang out in abandoned places like this site currently is. It would seem like if you really want to alleviate the problem you describe, it would be best to at least share your concerns with the owner and give him the opportunity to make sure his proposal restricts the situation you describe. If people aren't at least willing to do that before giving their for/or against, they only help preserve the type of environment you want to get rid of.

Btw, has anyone figured out where Mr. Jones' other businesses are? This discussion could be completely mute depending on their condition.

strider · October 31, 2009, 08:24:54 AM

Cindi, I will say yours was one of the more honest posts....you didnâ€™t hide behind the "too many convenience stores", "too much traffic" nor did you slide away from the real issue...you don't like some of the people who may or may not use the store. Well, here's a shocker, I may or may not like some of the people either. Iâ€™m just not going to make a decision about the store based on that.

I think one of the points Lake and myself are trying to make is if you continually make decisions based on who may or may not use a store or who may or may not live in a house and therefore may or may not become a problem like you describe then all you will end up with is the Shells that are already being used by the people you may not like.

You and a few others have been fighting to improve your section of 8th and still have the very same issues you did a few years ago. The police have trouble helping even when they want too. One issue I heard from the police was the dark alleys. More businesses mean more lighting. More lighting means less dark areas for crime. Rather than fight against a new business or a house that may or may not be used by people you may or may not like, wouldnâ€™t fighting for more lighting, particularly in the alleys, be more beneficial?

thelakelander · October 31, 2009, 08:36:12 AM

From participating in this discussion, it seems like no one really knows what the guy is planning outside of the general information (ex. car wash with a store). People know what they don't like, but the owner may not even have a clue because limited information is being given to him. At this point, for all we know, the guy could be proposing something that could drastically improve that general area. A decent amount of dialogue with the owner is definitely needed before dropping the hammer on the concept.

sheclown · October 31, 2009, 08:57:13 AM

From "SPAR Speaks" Oct 30.

Quote
There has been an application made with the Planning Department to put a car wash/convenience store at the corner of 4th & Main Streets. The same person applied a year or so ago and the neighborhood took a stand against it. Application No. 09-54 will be heard by the Planning Department on Thursday, November 12 at 1:00 PM at City Council Chambers. Those wishing to speak are encouraged to be there.

Does anyone have any of the details about this? What the objections were and etc.?

fatcat · October 31, 2009, 09:21:20 AM

Automatic car wash is very bad for the environment. Think about the amount of chemicals in the drain, the wax burden the old sewage system and the waste of water. I cannot support any car wash business, automatic or not, while I am inundated by TV ads about saving water by taking shorter showers. So read my lips. NO NEW CAR WASHES!