New Convenience Store

[Lucasjj]

Was this address a car wash before, because when I do a search for Silas Jones on the FL Dept. of State Corp Division it comes up with Silas Jones Car Wash Inc, and Downtown Car Wash Inc. both with a listed address of 25W 4Th St.? The Silas Jones Car Wash was registered in '97 and the Downtown was registered in '93. I couldn't find anything active related to his name.

[fsu813]

Stephy, honey.....

you've got to calm down.

you don't think straight when your worked up like this.

singling out 1 comment of mine a few months ago accomplishes what? trying to paint a picture of me? hate to break it to you, but i've spent money in that pawn shop twice since then. let's see if you save that one for months down the road. another one of your stereotypes down the tubes. =(

i know, more work for you to come up with new ones. i apologize.

[thelakelander]

Lake,

yes. thier reasons were: it would be next to some of the oldest housies in the 'hood, create traffic, don't need another convenience store, more people hanging out there, etc.

basically they don't trust that he'd do it the right way.

If he knows what he is doing, he could easily rip these arguments apart to get his zoning exception.  

1. Next to the oldest houses doesn't fly because the use has been there since 1955. Its legally a historic use of a currently zoned commercial property.  This is not on the owner, its on the zoning overlay.  If there is a problem, it should be addressed in zoning ordinance.

2. Don't need another store goes down in flames because its a car wash with a small market, which is needed to get the exception for the car wash.  For this argument to fly, opposition would have to offer factual data on why a store can't be supported.  He could then counter by promoting his business as a unique full service car wash facility.  How many convenience stores have full service car wash facilities in Springfield and DT?  I think I know the area pretty well and I can't even think of one.  

3. About people hanging out, just present a project with a nice outdoor waiting area/courtyard....just like the one at 3rd & Main.  People hang out there too. So separate "hang out" from loiter.  Present a nice rendering/site plan and promote it from the angle of fitting into the community's vision of a vibrant pedestrian friendly commercial corridor.

4. Not trusting the guy....well, in a zoning case that just doesn't fly.  As long as his track record is clean on his other properties, he should not worry about it.

If he can do those things, he can get an early start on advertising his business.

[fsu813]

he said he was part of the National Crawash Association.

google comes up with an international carwash ass, various carwash ass in US quadrants, but no "National".

i was looking for criteria of membership, list of members, etc.

[zoo]

I appreciate that Mr. Jones came to the SPAR Gen mtg last night and attempted to gain community support for his plans.

I also think, per Lake's suggestion, it would be good for him to contact SPAR's Streetscape committee, and to provide more information and photos regarding his other car washes, design renderings, his business plan (target audience and attraction strategies, types of inventory he plans to carry, hours, runoff quality, and anything else), how he plans to support SPR and work with it once his business is operational (will he be a SPAR or SAMBA member?), and his financial capability.

Some would say it's no one's business as long as it is legally possible.

But I have historically-justified concern re: entrepreneurial capability -- without it, some find themselves in situations where modification of business model after the fact is "easier" for them, or they fail and leave legal loopholes in their wake. What happens if the exception for the convenience store is approved, Mr. Jones doesn't have the kind of success for which he hoped, and he breaks lease and closes up shop?

These issues are my main source of concern, but I'm open to hearing more from Mr. Jones.

And, Stephen, don't bother asking what retail experience I've had or going off with some implication about how much retail exp I may or may not have -- you don't know me, and as I'm not trying to open a retail business here or anywhere else, it's NOYFB.

[zoo]

Who's a carwash ass? That's a bit harsh ;-)...

[strider]

Both Stephen and Lake are right on this issue.   This community does not have the right to pass judgment on this proposed facility.  You do have the right to make your concerns known and that is the reason it is an exception rather than permissible use.  It is recognized that a facility such as this could have negative impacts on a community.  In this case, the  history is against you and, as Lake indicated, the guy has already read your arguments and is working his way around them.  If you can not convince the city that your arguments against this facility has merit, then you will have a car wash on Main whether you want it or not.

I mentioned that it might have restricts on hours.  That is because the overlay considers some uses “intensive uses” , which are mostly automotive related, and so puts restriction on the hours of operation.  This facility may or may not be considered an intensive use.  Even if it is, the restricted hours may not be enforceable.

Listen to Lake, stop blaming the people who may or may not use the place as the reason you don’t want it and go get the real facts.  It might just be something good after all. 

[Dan B]

Im just catching up on this thread, but it looks more like the messengers are getting shot, rather than open honest debated.

Personally, I dont care if it opens or not. I take my cars to Joes, on main, so they wont be getting my business for no other reason than I am a loyal customer somewhere else.

[Springfielder]

Im just catching up on this thread, but it looks more like the messengers are getting shot, rather than open honest debated.

I know you're not surprised...

[thelakelander]

Don't take my comments as shooting the messenger.  I'm just offering a different perspective on how to proper address proposals like this.  If people want a viable business district along this corridor you have to fill up the abandoned buildings first.  With that said, its easier to work with people willing to take the risk to open something in the area than going after less interested entities.

[thelakelander]

My main concern was having another business that creates more curb drinking, litter (Springfield tumbleweeds), and loitering.

What would be ways to address this issue?  Doug Ganson has a convenience store at Landing and it appears that drinking and littering are not associated with it.  Gate and several gas stations all over town have convenience stores and these things are not issues.  Is it possible for Mr. Jones to maintain his facility in a similar manner to the mentioned examples?  It is definitely a managerial issue.  The owners don't tolerate it in these other places.  If he registers it as a HITZ area then it would show he supports the enforcement of trespassing and loitering laws.

This would be the type of information that should be discussed with and suggested to Mr. Jones when he presents in front of the community.

I am not so much opposed, not because I anticipate that I will use the facility, but because its negative impacts on the neighborhood will be lower.

I guess my question is, does this have to be a negative?  Right now all that exists is an abandoned and poorly maintained property, which is a negative.  Why can't the new use be set up to be a positive? We have to look at the negatives and the positives.  I'm not sure I understand the question.

Its clear that the negatives have been bought up. That's why I suggested taking the other approach of working with an owner to make sure these negative concerns are snuffed out early on in the design/planning process.

Some considerations would be lighting, hours of operation, and buffer between it and the residential behind it, also should look historic.  I would think the onus is on the business owner to address these issues, being that he is the one applying for the exception.

Yes, these are issues the owner should address, unlike maintaining 4th Street.  However, if the community has a vision of what it wants to be, that vision should be shared now and incorporated into the plans before things get too far along.  The onus on this part of it is just as much the responsibility of the community and city, as it is the owner's.

We should definitely put together a list of concerns and propose some solutions that can be presented.

Yes, and that list should be given to Mr. Jones so that we will be aware of the community's concerns and so that he can have the opportunity to integrate some of the suggestions into his final product.

[cindi]

wow, let me get this straight.  Since I would like to give my input on a new business in the neighborhood

these horrible people will spend all of their useless time doing nothing except talking about why their personal gaseous emissions are good enough reason to tell other people what they can and cannot do.

and I live and have a family here

you and your stupid snotty neighbors

but don’t have the money to buy the property in question

If you want something to happen.  Go buy some land and put some money where your mouth is.

what, like Mack did so people can crucify him for it when he did it

Who the hell are you to decide whether someone else should invest their money and time in a shop?

Or is it because it isn’t YOUR special cause

Your theory that god appointed you the deciders for springfield

.
Aren’t hearings like this standard, and happen all over town for all types of cases.  They are not targeting anybody.  I would think that if you were opening a business anywhere - you would want to know what would work best in the neighborhood.
Again, I have no money, know nothing at all about business, and didn’t even stay at a Holiday Inn Express but I read that “An expert is somebody who is more than 50 miles from home, has no responsibility for implementing the advice he gives, and shows slides.”
Edwin Meese

[Dan B]

Don't take my comments as shooting the messenger.  I'm just offering a different perspective on how to proper address proposals like this.  If people want a viable business district along this corridor you have to fill up the abandoned buildings first.  With that said, its easier to work with people willing to take the risk to open something in the area than going after less interested entities.

I know you too well for that Lake. You are thoughtful, and come at every issue with the best of intentions. I trust your judgment on a lot of these issues, and hope your right.

[thelakelander]

Everyone, I'd like to keep this thread focused on the car wash application and the pros and cons of having this facility in the community.  We have enough bickering going on already.  Let's keep this thread on topic and discuss in a civil adult manner.  Thanks to all in advance.

[cindi]

the roads in front of that area are in pretty poor shape. might a business in that location aid in getting the road repaired?