New Convenience Store

[Matt M]

What are your thoughts on the owner of 25 W 4th Street (one block north of 3RD and Main where there is convenience store on the SE corner) trying to get an exception from Planning and Development to open a convenience store?

[fsu813]

car wash/ convenience store, apparently.

can't be good for the residents that live close by.

plenty of convenience stores in the area already anyways

[thelakelander]

The car wash has been there since 1955, so it can be argued that its "historic."  From what I understand, the convenience store is needed for them to open the car wash back up.  Imo, its not the best location for convenience store but the property is commercial and zoned for it and the site is better used, than in the abandoned condition it is currently in.

My suggestion would be to work with the people proposing this project to make sure it is well integrated into the neighborhood and supports walkability along the Main Street corridor.  For example, all that building needs is a decent outdoor patio/courtyard/seating area to make it walkable.  Take advantage of smart design to shape and dictate the atmosphere around the project.

Below: Same use, different atmosphere, primarily through design.

[zoo]

Don't think I can really form an opinion until I see the plans he has submitted, and feel confident in the owner's financial capability to implement (that is what trips up a lot of Springfielders that initially have good intentions). If his thought is more like the first image lakelander posted, I would give it some consideration for two reasons:

1. The "convenience store" in this case appears to be there to serve the customers of the car wash while their car is moving through the the cleaning tunnel (internally focused, rather than foot traffic driven). These typs of car washes were all over the communities where I came from, and the design of it, with enclosed building more visible from the street than the tunnel, helped them to be less eyesore than the wash-your-car-yourself version with multiple bays (2nd pic posted by lakelander); and,

2. While people waited for their car to go through the tunnel, and the car wash employees to dry and lightly detail, they sought something to do. Sometimes wandering convenience store for items like greeting cards, car cup holders/air fresheners, and travel mugs, magazines (maybe this is a way to a newsstand?); sometimes reading in the area out front -- but other times wandering into neighboring merchants to pass the time (and more of their moolah). Depending on the venture's targeting strategy, this type of walk traffic could be good on Main.

Even the first design had a drawback; the car drying/detailing area was often filled with cars being worked on, which did give the visual effect of a car lot -- albeit one with busy car detailers buzzing around each vehicle to finish it up. If this is the model, that also means jobs, and great merchandising opportunities (like car detailer uniforms, signage, waiting area, etc...)

I hope someone will post what he has submitted for plans for the Nov 12 meeting.

[zoo]

Two more things:

- I did often wonder, where all of the water, soap, chemicals? of what sort the car wash was using went? A commercial car wash means a lot of this stuff, and I would hope Planning & Development Dept thinks about this (what is the effect, if any, on Hogan's Creek, the St Johns River, and the granite gutters lining 4th St?) before approving.

- Silas mentioned he owned other car washes in Jax -- anyone catch the names of them? -- they might be worth looking at to get an idea of the business model. I would also hope that, if approved, the lease arrangement he has with Petra is such that the venture would be sustainable. If the door is opened to the type of the car wash the lessee has planned (whatever that may be), the rent structure doesn't work out, and the venture closes, THEN what happens in that spot may not end up being what was approved.

[strider]

It is my understanding that this location had been renovated (internally - IE, new equipment) some time ago and then found out he was not permitted to open?  If so, then the convenience store certainly is to change the use so that he can have a car wash too rather than just a carwash.  Either way, I think a car wash is considered an intensive use and would have restricted hours under the overlay, assuming they can be enforced.  The restricted hours may make the use more pleasant for the actual neighbors of the business. As a note, I did get a call from someone who owns property behind there and they weren't happy about the idea, but is willing to keep an open mind.

It appears to be an "automated" car wash rather than self serve from the style of the building and what I have been told in the past.  Assuming that is true, then, to answer a question about the waste water, these newer car washes recycle their water.  I would say at least 99% or higher is captured, filtered and reused.  In this type of business, water becomes an pretty high expense and then add in EPA requirements and it becomes very cost effective to spend money on recycling and filtering. This is also true on self serve types to an extent, but some older ones probably only have a rough filter. separator on the waste water drains.

[fsu813]

hope the owner holds those priorities as well, as i'm sure it's not cheap if it's not already in place

[Overstreet]

What!........no oil change place?

Most of the really good ones will have convenience store, carwash and oil change place.

[fsu813]

uh oh. i sense either a

(1) how would you feel if....
(2) you don't know what you're talking about...

moment coming on by Stephen.

i'm taking bets!

[fsu813]

i think that qualifies as a "how wouyld you feel if....." comment.

everyone who picked #1, come and get your money.

[Sigma]

car wash/ convenience store, apparently.

can't be good for the residents that live close by.

plenty of convenience stores in the area already anyways

I concur, but I'd like to see the proposed renderings and hear what the owner has to say.  I just don't think its a good fit in that area as I imagine it.  The restricted hours would be needed.

[fsu813]

Stephen.

an active community discusses what proposed businesses may come to the area and talks about the pros & cons. and what can be done to support them or disuade them.

community organizing 101.

[thelakelander]

Alright, let's get back on topic and leave the personal insults out of the discussion.  Here is the actual application.  Evaluate the project on the information presented in the actual document and think of ways to possibly better integrate such a project into the commercial corridor.

















Existing Site Plan


Proposed Site Plan

[danno]

Are we gonna make sure that those with dirty cars will be there.  A meeting without them would be invalid.

[danno]

SInce I don't like washing my car in the street, I might use it.