SPAR's "RED ALERT" aimed at neighbors...uses Proton Lab staff and faculty ?!?

[Gonzo]

the beginning point of this conversation should be two resignations and a date for new elections if SPAR wants to be taken seriously by the greater community ever again.

It is possible that heartfelt apologies would be enough, but I doubt there is enough character present to make that a reality.

Again, that's not really in the spirit of negotiation is it? You cannot have a dialog unless you are willing to concede some points.

While I respect your right to call for resignations or demand apologies, I keep coming back to the, "if I don't get my way I am going to take my toys and leave," mentality. Really? This is an adult conversation?

The facts are that things have been done on both sides of the issue that are regrettable. SPAR may have crossed lines it should not have. Stephen, you are using this board as a personal tool to advance your anti-SPAR agenda.

Adults can see and say that. They can also work to make things better WITHOUT issuing ultimatums.

[strider]

No one likes us posting the e-mails…is it because they think it rude or is it because then no one can hide behind the lies anymore?  Don’t like the mud slinging? Don’t read the thread.  Don’t like us?  Oh, well. Join the group, it forms behind SPAR Council.  Louise is probably at the head of the line.

Gonzo: Middle ground:

Strider, continue to operate your current houses in a responsible manner, but do not open any more within the neighborhood. Accept that the overlay will be changed to prevent further homes of this nature from opening. This does not prevent you from expanding your business it merely prevents you from doing it in Springfield.

SPAR, get off Strider's back. Allow him to operate his legal businesses free from harassment. But, continue to work towards preventing further group homes from opening. Ethically operate the organization in complete transparency and in accordance with all bylaws.

I suppose we could have been good little past residents and current home owners and not stood up to the bully tactics that SPAR Council likes to use, but we weren’t built that way.  We are not going to abandon the rights of the guys who rent from us because Louise DeSpain says we should.  I suppose that is one of the reasons why we are attacked, why my name is used in almost every e-mail about the subject of rooming houses (please note, I do not own any rooming houses, but I have thought about buying one once or twice…) sent to the city officials.

Gonzo, I don’t know who you are, but I think you have a lot to learn about the few at the top of SPAR Council.  Say we did make some sort of compromise, how could we possibly trust SPAR Council, headed by a few who can not even follow their own by-laws, to keep that agreement?  They tell all who will listen that we didn’t keep the last agreement, but go ask the city if we did or didn’t.  The only one saying we didn’t is SPAR Council.  After we (and several who have posted against us here recently) braced them over the election and by-laws issues. 

One would think that after seeing how often my name comes up in these e-mails that SPAR Council and my detractors would have horrible things to report about our rental houses.  Yet, some have said they were well run.  The truth is, they are.  The truth is also, these few still do not like the people who live in them. Oh, and as a side note, the house we rent outside of Springfield was turned in as well…by SPAR Council.

There is only a need to change the overlay to eliminate future “homes like this” in the minds of a few. You say group homes, but in reality, groups homes are not the issue.  There is already a category for “special Uses” of which high density group residency homes are a part of, but when the overlay was written, it was recognized that not only did high density group care homes created an issue if too many were allowed into one area, it also recognized that low density group care homes were not an issue and so were left out of the “special Uses” and allowed in most of Springfield.  Some minor restrictions were placed on them, but nothing too limiting.  Then realize that what we have are not even low density group homes, but simple single family rentals. 

The real fear here is that if SPAR Council has it’s way, then these guys will not have a home anymore.  After we are gone, who is next?  College kids because they make too much noise?  Four young school teachers sharing a house because they have young men over once in while?  Who decides what is a permissible use once the first change is made?

We know the law, we know what has been said, we know what has been planned and we will not accept less than preserving the rights of the men and women who need those rights the most. 

[zoo]

Stephendare: I do however have a pro Springfield agenda, and the leadership of SPAR is at cross purposes with the needs and welfare of the neighborhood.

Thanks for an early morning dose of ridiculousness. Your hyperbolic statements, and your repetitive references to majority/minority opinions, give me reason to chuckle throughout the day. Further, your contribution to credibility for "your side" of the discussion is invaluable -- keep it up!

Gonzo, thanks for weighing in and suggesting finding middle ground. After reading the most recent posts from Strider and Stephendare, do you still think it's possible?

It seems these post-er's "middle ground" is "let me buy, renovate, and fill with 5 un-related, recovering persons as many properties in this District as I'm financially able" and "I'd like to decide how Springfield should revitalize," respectively. Anyone, other than the 4 whose opinion we already know well, think Springfield should meet at this "middle ground?"

[Lucasjj]

Without going in more circles of who is right or wrong, can someone help a non-Springfield resident understand all of this. Please correct me if any of this is wrong.

From what I have read there are group homes providing living for people recovering from different things that have been grandfathered into the neighborhood. These are specially licensed to operate in this fashion.

There are also single family homes being shared by five or fewer people that are in some form of recovery, which is legal according to the overlay laws, and does not require any special permitting.

Just a ballpark figure, how many of these type of houses are there like this in Springfield?

Also as someone considering buying in the neighborhood, is there a way to confirm whether a house is operating as a recovery house?

[Gonzo]

There is only a need to change the overlay to eliminate future "homes like this" in the minds of a few. You say group homes, but in reality, groups homes are not the issue.  There is already a category for "special Uses" of which high density group residency homes are a part of, but when the overlay was written, it was recognized that not only did high density group care homes created an issue if too many were allowed into one area, it also recognized that low density group care homes were not an issue and so were left out of the "special Uses" and allowed in most of Springfield.  Some minor restrictions were placed on them, but nothing too limiting.  Then realize that what we have are not even low density group homes, but simple single family rentals. 

The real fear here is that if SPAR Council has it's way, then these guys will not have a home anymore.  After we are gone, who is next?  College kids because they make too much noise?  Four young school teachers sharing a house because they have young men over once in while?  Who decides what is a permissible use once the first change is made?

We know the law, we know what has been said, we know what has been planned and we will not accept less than preserving the rights of the men and women who need those rights the most. 

Again, I reiterate, I am not against you or Stephen, I just think that you need to ease up on the militant rhetoric.

Let's take alook at the single-family rentals. Again I refer to my analogy of smoking - just becasue something is legal does not mean it is a good thing. A question that comes to mind is: does each individual have a seperate, one-year lease or is this a month to month rental? A month to month rental allows for a lot of tranciency. Which is something that is definitately detrimental to the fabric of the neighborhood. We have plenty of transients already. And, while your argument of a group of college kids or school teachers living together is valid, it does not truly address the issue; college kids and school teachers are not recovering alcoholics or drug addicts who have the potential of bringing more of those elements into the neighborhood just as we are trying to usher them out.

I would also like to ask what your requirements for residency in one of your hoses is? You have already stated that you subject potential residents to background checks, for this I truly thank you. However, what follow-up requirements do you have? Are your residents required to submit to periodic drug and alcohol screenings? If so, I commend you for that. If not, I wonder why not? If these houses are meant to places of recovery wouldn't it be detrimental to all residents if one person in a house slipped back into bad habits?

Again, I am not trying to slam anyone, just trying to get to the crux of the matter.

I feel (and again, just my opinion) that there are enough houses dedicated to your business model inthe neighborhood already. Just as I feel that we have plenty of convenience stores. Should someone say to me that they plan to open a convenience store, I would express my concerns about that as well.

I don't think that your business is nefarious in any way as I do not know you personally nor have I visited one of your houses. Perhaps I will stop by your thrift store on Main one day and say hello.

[Gonzo]

Gonzo, thanks for weighing in and suggesting finding middle ground. After reading the most recent posts from Strider and Stephendare, do you still think it's possible?

zoo -- I am only trying to bring order to the chaos out here. Can middle gorund be found? I don't know. One would like to believe it can, but it does not seem that anyone is willing to compromise.

Maybe the best thing at this point is to ask: without calling for heads on platters, calling names or spinning and facts, what is it -- specifically -- that Stephen and Strider want?

[fsu813]

Lucasjj,

just call SPAR. they do a great job of keeping track of them & can fill you in on anyelse regarding this issue.

353-7727.

just tell 'em you're thinking of buying in the area and they'll help you out.

[sheclown]

Stop in the thrift store -- we'd be happy to talk to you and take you on a tour.  Or PM us and we'll set up a time to meet.

[Gonzo]

Stop in the thrift store -- we'd be happy to talk to you and take you on a tour.  Or PM us and we'll set up a time to meet.

That would be great.

[civil42806]

Gonzo, thanks for weighing in and suggesting finding middle ground. After reading the most recent posts from Strider and Stephendare, do you still think it's possible?

zoo -- I am only trying to bring order to the chaos out here. Can middle gorund be found? I don't know. One would like to believe it can, but it does not seem that anyone is willing to compromise.

Maybe the best thing at this point is to ask: without calling for heads on platters, calling names or spinning and facts, what is it -- specifically -- that Stephen and Strider want?

Gonzo, hate to break the news to you but its not possible, you'll figure it out after a while, just read the posts.

[sheclown]

This is what Sheclown wants:

More transparency in neighborhood affairs
Stop the scare tactics and lies ie: RED ALERTS, illegal rooming houses, loopholes
Treat all businesses and residents as equal shareholders in Springfield's future

[Gonzo]

Gonzo, thanks for weighing in and suggesting finding middle ground. After reading the most recent posts from Strider and Stephendare, do you still think it's possible?

zoo -- I am only trying to bring order to the chaos out here. Can middle gorund be found? I don't know. One would like to believe it can, but it does not seem that anyone is willing to compromise.

Maybe the best thing at this point is to ask: without calling for heads on platters, calling names or spinning and facts, what is it -- specifically -- that Stephen and Strider want?

Gonzo, hate to break the news to you but its not possible, you'll figure it out after a while, just read the posts.

Civil -- I have actually been a reader of the site and forums for a long time. I weigh in occassionally and have met most of the players. Its difficult dealing with strong-willed, passionate people. But, I can't help but think there is a place where everyone can come to an agreement. Where that is, I don't know, but it would certainly make the neighborhood a better place and maybe -- just maybe -- break this cycle of finger pointing and persecution.

Call me a dreamer...

[Springfielder]

Anyone, other than the 4 whose opinion we already know well, think Springfield should meet at this "middle ground?"

Yes, but it takes a willingness from all interested parties...of which, I've not seen

[JaxUnicorn]

that is so true, springfielder.

Btw.  Where are the SPAR representatives?

There's a SPAR meeting tomorrow night (10/29/09).  7:00pm  1321 N. Main Street.  I'm sure there will be SPAR representatives there.

[civil42806]

Gonzo, thanks for weighing in and suggesting finding middle ground. After reading the most recent posts from Strider and Stephendare, do you still think it's possible?

zoo -- I am only trying to bring order to the chaos out here. Can middle gorund be found? I don't know. One would like to believe it can, but it does not seem that anyone is willing to compromise.

Maybe the best thing at this point is to ask: without calling for heads on platters, calling names or spinning and facts, what is it -- specifically -- that Stephen and Strider want?

Gonzo, hate to break the news to you but its not possible, you'll figure it out after a while, just read the posts.

Civil -- I have actually been a reader of the site and forums for a long time. I weigh in occassionally and have met most of the players. Its difficult dealing with strong-willed, passionate people. But, I can't help but think there is a place where everyone can come to an agreement. Where that is, I don't know, but it would certainly make the neighborhood a better place and maybe -- just maybe -- break this cycle of finger pointing and persecution.

Call me a dreamer...

Okay your a dreamer