Florida 9B, linking 9A and U.S. 1, moving forward

[CS Foltz]

I always have wondered if those suckers got a bounty for using Eminant Domain? Those roads don't help the public one drop, we just get to pay for it going in and then taking care of it!

[tufsu1]

Why can't they go around Bayard, instead of taking the entire SE corner of it?

they are...the line on the map is not quite right

[reednavy]

they are...the line on the map is not quite right

Good, I was about to say wtf? Bayard is kinda peaceful, but I would not dare tread into during the night.

[thelakelander]

The map is right.  The area of Bayard it goes through is undeveloped.  The street ROW shows up because it was set aside for streets decades ago but they were never developed.

[thelakelander]

As tusfu1 and myself have said about 100 times in other threads, this WHOLE THING is about the port. If you don't think this Port expansion gos WAAAAY PAST the local hype, just check out the Federal site on this road, I-795. It has taken the entire Southeast 50 years to get the I-22 corridor added to the Federal Interstate List, but along comes some home ports and badda-bing - badda-biff, instant Interstate connector.

Sorry Ock, I can't drink that kool aid.  9B has nothing to do with the port.  Its just another route to get Northern St. Johns County residents in and out of the area faster.  Unfortunately, the new development that will follow in the future will eventually congest it was well.

[tufsu1]

The map is right.  The area of Bayard it goes through is undeveloped.  The street ROW shows up because it was set aside for streets decades ago but they were never developed.

actually Lake it isn't...you are correct that some of the Bayard roads were never built...but the 9B alignment has been shifted slightly to the east...if you look at an aerial on Bing, 9B will intersect w/ US 1 about 1/3 mile south of Gran Bay Pkwy....then will extend between Citicards Way and the adjacent residential subdivision on the way to I-95.

BTW...I also don't buy into this port thing...9B has been on statewide maps for at least 15 years...well before our Port contemplated serious expansion.

[stjr]

Sorry Ock, I can't drink that kool aid.  9B has nothing to do with the port.  Its just another route to get Northern St. Johns County residents in and out of the area faster.  Unfortunately, the new development that will follow in the future will eventually congest it was well.

Agreed, Lake.

IF it was about the port, the idea for 9B would have just come up with the Mitsui and Hanjin announcements.  We all know that this predated those by about a decade or more and was a dream of the St. Johns County people.  Read the archived Times-Union articles I previously posted.

Given this and Ock's impassioned defense of JTA having multiple books of numbers and offering a lame excuse for JTA misleading the public and City Council on bus shelters, I think Ock is spending too much time with our road builders trying to get them to come over from the dark side to mass transit.  This may be making him a victim of the Stockholm syndrome where a captive becomes enamoured by his captors (see the Patty Hearst case). 

[Ocklawaha]

YOU BOYS ALREADY DRANK THE COOL AIDE,

"Don't build another road! yeah, yeah... and?

So don't drink the cool aide? Push hard to get the city to wake the hell up and take charge of the railroad mess we've allowed to destroy some of the beneficial fallout from the massive port expansions. You don't think Florida East Coast Ry, could handle 2,000+ more TEU'S daily? HA! Meanwhile CSX, and NS would be taking 3x that number North, West, and Southwest of town.

We wouldn't have a gravel interchange under I-295/I-95, had someone thought of the railroads before now. Lakelander, stjr, tufsu1, you boys are too easy to play, more so because I've used this same approach on this same damn road on another thread... and everybody jumped on the messenger, "Me," which was all about the benefits of the road, and nobody ripped into the real answer.

For those totally out of touch with my life living between Volcano Ruiz, and the FARC Guerrilla's, in the oxygen deprived altitudes of the high Andes, welcome to Thermia, just beyond the Klatu Nebula! My retreat in heaven.
Maybe I should bring a bottle of thin air to town with me tomorrow, Jacksonville needs the fix. It's so damn sad we live in America's leading 3RD World City, and I hate that we are so damn bass akward and cheap about our quality of life, what's the Literacy rate in town today? Colombia's is right at 91.5% male and female. Oh and by the way, when I'm not trying to shake up my home town "north" about rail, I'm having a ball with my train set in my home town "south."

Meanwhile that highway that bi-passes Nuqui, from Alto Baudo', and creeps north toward Bahia Solono, will soon be cut across the REAL jungle in Choco, completing another cutoff from Medellin to the Mar Pacifico. Gee, just like 9B aka: 795. What do we Jaxsons think will happen in Nuqui, with it's unspoiled beaches and resorts once a land connection allows the metropolitan crowds to bathe in the Pacific? Sprawl? Desegregation? Integration? Assimilation? Captivation? Right now Nuqui is untouched by modern man, with the single exception of an airport and military installation. It's one street is busy, innocent native children sell little carved trinket's, while others work in the adventure and Eco travel industry at the many little resorts. Come on down to El Cantil ( our family owns the place) and forget what electricity, cell phones and digital brain pollution is. Don't worry the staff speaks Inglis:
http://www.elcantil.com/elcantil/english/english.htm

Next, what Jacksonville should be doing! Just as loud as Orlando, HSR and Tri-Rail, maybe louder!


God, life is great when your having fun! 1ST WORLD THINKING!

Witness: A 1 BILLION US DOLLAR project, 750 miles in total, 75% reconstruction and 25% new construction. Easy grades, coke grade (steel making) coal, UN says reserves for 100+ years, and we'll move 15,000,000 tones per annual.

[stjr]

Ock, you are surely one-of-a-kind.  We luv you as your are.  Don't change.

I thought being anti-9B was complementary to being pro-rail.  If you want support for rail for the port, you got it.  Unfortunately, we aren't the ones who can make it happen.

Are you sure you aren't inhaling some souvenirs you bought back from your beloved Columbia?    It may be as bad for you as the Koolaide in Guyana!  What is it with these South American vices? 

[north miami]

The long history of road way proposals:

Assume new road way will bring vesting/new development.Those to gain vesting are key 'drivers' within the proposal process.

The 'public' plays reactive mode,rarely proactive or predictive role.

The role of non government Planners & Consultants extends to "public" 'workshops','visioning'.

There is no credible "news"/reporting provided to or accessable by the 'public'

Most have little idea of what I share here

"Roads are the mothers milk of development" - St.Joe Company

"We can't build our way out of congestion"- John Delaney....short lived promotion,conveniently employed during the initial love fest with enviros,and then retired.John made key comments during the FDOT Brannon/Chaffee permit application to COE/SJRWMD. The premise of the application was misleading- B/C described as "stand alone" with "no future plans" (at this time) for extension ,a blatant image.

[CS Foltz]

Ock has just gone native on us! heheheLOL! He does have a point regarding this 9B situation.....I mean which could move more a road or a rail track? If I had a say in the matter, rail should be the only way to mass move shipping containers! Which is more efficient, one truck or one train! This is something that the Port people should have planned for from the beginning not after the fact! Rail would help relieve congestion on 95 and when they really start moving trucks south on it......gravel city here we come! Rail is a much smarter alternative for moving many many loads south to a hub point and then transfer from there! But that's just me!

[thelakelander]

YOU BOYS ALREADY DRANK THE COOL AIDE,

"Don't build another road! yeah, yeah... and?

I'm not against road construction where it makes sense.  As proven by the HSR dialogue on this site, you'll see that I feel the same way about rail.  Invest on projects that make sense.  So, if we want to spend money on roads, spend money replacing the Matthews Bridge, building a river crossing between the Shands and Buckman, extend Lone Star Road to the Southside Connector or add the missing link of Alden.  These are the types of road projects that make sense to me.  Outside of opening land for new development, the need for 9B to me remains highly questionable.

Lakelander, stjr, tufsu1, you boys are too easy to play, more so because I've used this same approach on this same damn road on another thread... and everybody jumped on the messenger, "Me," which was all about the benefits of the road, and nobody ripped into the real answer.

I'm not shooting the messenger, I'm just saying the true primary benefit is opening more land to development.  I've preached the same message as you about FEC, but in this case, I don't think this project is remotely port related.

[CS Foltz]

lake...........I agree 101%........the 9A & 9B extensions are the fore runner for more development along that stretch plain and simple! The people who own the land, the road builders who will build and then the developers who will then add to the urban sprawl by building high dollar houses and the like! Both are not needed and are just a waste of taxpayer money.....we get to pay to build it, we get to pay to maintain it!

[Ocklawaha]

I'm not shooting the messenger, I'm just saying the true primary benefit is opening more land to development.  I've preached the same message as you about FEC, but in this case, I don't think this project is remotely port related.

Lake, you've got to smile more! WINK! Actually 9-B or uh, I-795 is linked to the port all over the place as a web search of the two will demonstrate. Perhaps it is for PR, perhaps planned, or perhaps they just figure that we are all too damn stupid to know the difference. Can't you see the articles now? "WHAT IF I-795 WAS NEVER BUILT! HA!

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Actually 9-B or uh, I-795 is linked to the port all over the place as a web search of the two will demonstrate. Perhaps it is for PR, perhaps planned, or perhaps they just figure that we are all too damn stupid to know the difference. Can't you see the articles now? "WHAT IF I-795 WAS NEVER BUILT! HA![/color]

Ock, you haven't responded to those who have pointed out 9B was conceived of by St. Johns County officials well before the current port expansions.  We aren't too stupid to recognize bait and switch.  We are insulted by the games public officials play with these projects to backfill with excuses for their construction.