SPAR revolt?

[thelakelander]

Thanks for your insight Chris and welcome to Metro Jacksonville.  This is the type of credible information this topic needs to put things in their proper space, regardless of how people from opposing sides may feel.  With that said, this tends to suggest that the city's code enforcement department may be responsible for many demolitions. 

Being a property owner in the neighborhood, I can tell you that they can do just as much damage in the neighborhood, costing people a ton of money in the process.  For example, my project at 6th & Main is an active construction site with an official building permit.  Nevertheless, I've been sent nasty letters telling me to clean up the lose construction materials on the site in two weeks or less.  From a personal perspective, I can do that and it would cost me a couple of hundred dollars because I would have to do it again in another week, when the roofing guys come out.  Money doesn't grow on trees (this is a recession after all), so what do you think happened?

I took my chances on getting the project as complete as possible to pay for one site clean up as opposed to two, three weeks after their "deadline".  If I were in a situation where I had purchased a structurally unsound property but did not have the financial resources to immediately improve the site, I don't know what I would do.  Imo, when it comes to demolitions, the city and code enforcement may be the bigger player here.

[blanchard]

I realize I will hardly be seen as a non-partisan party here as I am a former SPAR board member, and have pretty strong opinions about what Joe and Gloria are attempting to do with their "rentals", however.... it sure seems like there is a ton of posturing by everyone involved, and that both parties are fully engaged in a good old fashion pissing contest. Add to that a healthy heaping of angst ridden rabble rousing, and this whole thing is a much bigger mess than it needs to be.

It is time for the parties directly involved in this issue to sit down at a table and hash this out, and knock off this public smear fest.

[02roadking]

Thanks Chris, for putting more insight into this little saga that was create by a single email. Your an angel.

[chris farley]

tephen wrote
have heard conflicting stories about the building that you photographed,, and your rationale seems to be that it was an eyesore for eva and on the boundary of an already improved property.  Do you mean to imply that it should have been taken down partially because of its effect on Ayres property?
unquote


Stephen the statement above is not what was meant at all

I looked at the bungalow only on its own merits and if I thought it could be saved I would have said so.  Go look at it - buy it but it will take 55,000.  While there take a lookk at the one that Patrice Bennett restored behind the shop, much money went into it, it would not sell, it would not rent, and now it is being stolen bit by bit,  the fence has been cut to get the airconditioning equipment out and I told the HPC that I could see that one coming on the agends at some point  BUT in spite of this I said what I said about the blue bungalow based only on the fact that it is gone!
I will get the minutes of the HPC meeting

In this whole thing     HONI SOIT QUI MAL Y PENSE

[fsu813]

Now that Chis Farley has cleared this issue up, revealing nothing devious in nature, no wrong doing, and nothing to be ashamed about, i think this issue is wrapped up with a nice little bow.

So what did we find out?

That there are a group of 5 or 6 people who are willing use information out of context, exaggerate it, twist it, make wild assumptions, & throw people under the bus to try make as much uproar as they can. They have a vendetta and aren't afraid to irresponisbley drum up contraversy, even if they have little to go on. And they certainly won't admit a mistake once they are proven to be chicken-little's.

One thing is for certain: chicken-little's have credibility issues.

[02roadking]

"Louise complains that if he has his way Springfield will never be able to demolish historic builldings."

 Stephen, not trying to be a Azz, but, the email actually it says to demolish a house in the Historic District. To me, that is not the same.
 While I'd rather not have any demo's of any historic structures, there are a few structures I would not cry about if they dissappeared from the District.

[ChriswUfGator]

What a shock another SPAR-defending newbie pops out of the woodwork...

I think what's going on is that COJ (and others) took notice of the uproar SPAR's actions have been creating online, and now their natural response is to deal with this the same way they deal with everything, ranging from their historical preservation mandate to their rigged internal elections.

They are here to try and stack the deck.

I think we've actually exceeded the moon river pizza thread with 0-post count newbies who all seem to know a little "too much" about this topic they've clearly registered just to post in. I think the mods should start doing IP checks on all these newbies who've mysteriously come out of the woodwork just to defend SPAR.

[blanchard]

What a shock another SPAR-defending newbie pops out of the woodwork...

I think what's going on is that COJ (and others) took notice of the uproar SPAR's actions have been creating online, and now their natural response is to deal with this the same way they deal with everything, ranging from their historical preservation mandate to their rigged internal elections.

They are here to try and stack the deck.

I think we've actually exceeded the moon river pizza thread with 0-post count newbies who all seem to know a little "too much" about this topic they've clearly registered just to post in. I think the mods should start doing IP checks on all these newbies who've mysteriously come out of the woodwork just to defend SPAR.

I guess you were appointed Springfield thread police while I was on hiatus? Sorry if I have a new name, I chose to retire the old one.

So, do you have anything constructive to add to all of this, or is it your sole intent to point out the new posters?

[jason_contentdg]

What a shock another SPAR-defending newbie pops out of the woodwork...

I think what's going on is that COJ (and others) took notice of the uproar SPAR's actions have been creating online, and now their natural response is to deal with this the same way they deal with everything, ranging from their historical preservation mandate to their rigged internal elections.

They are here to try and stack the deck.

I think we've actually exceeded the moon river pizza thread with 0-post count newbies who all seem to know a little "too much" about this topic they've clearly registered just to post in. I think the mods should start doing IP checks on all these newbies who've mysteriously come out of the woodwork just to defend SPAR.

Why would anyone need to investigate anyones IP addresses, my goodness.  Even if the topic may get a little heated, at the end of the day this is just a forum where people can join and leave as they want.  Nobody is on trial here, legally.

[thelakelander]

fsu are you seriously this tone deaf?

The three or four people from spar are here basically saying 'nothing to see, move along people', and its not working.  nice try.

SPAR cannot be allowed to continue its shockingly negative actions.

For the record, I have recieved four emails from readers asking if you have a vendetta against spar because your posts are making them seem like a bunch of overconfident bigots,(my summation of the various comments) and Ive told each one that I have no idea what your real platform is.

If Im correct you are one of the true believers who bought an SRG house and were told that the neighborhood would quickly 'come around', you know, get whiter and wealthier, am I wrong about that?

Have you looked into the City's Code Enforcement Department?  To me, it seems this is where the demolition fire trail leads to.  Knowing other small property owners across town, I'd say its also bigger than Springfield.

[thelakelander]

Wow.  I don't see it how you're presenting it, which goes back to the "context" issue I mentioned earlier this morning.  Its hard to base a theory on anything out of the email that has been presented here.  In reality, SPAR has no true control over code enforcement.  Buildings are falling all over town because the city is putting property owners in a situation where the only financially sound solution (for the owner) is demolition.  Any idea on how the code enforcement departments are run in Savannah and Charleston and how those operations differ from Jacksonville's?  My guess is this has more to do with Jax's blighted building stock being destroyed than SPAR running city hall.

[thelakelander]

Its larger.  The moonscapes in Brooklyn, LaVilla, DT, the Cathedral District, the Eastside, Sugar Hill, New Springfield, fill in another neighborhood name here, are proof that the demolition issue exceeds Springfield's boundaries.

[Jth]

SPAR should be providing a solution to all that.

Instead, they have used their position to decide which buildings should be demolished, apparently for financial considerations, and over the objections and opinion of the person with a college degree on the subject who was hired by the city to help make those determinations.

This is the very crux of the argument.

When it suits SPAR, the historic details are very relevant.  When it suits the financial considerations of property developers, bombs away.

In that case I take it that you will never give me a hard time over planning decisions I make at SPAR based on my Masters Degree in Urban Planning?

[fsu813]

Stephen,

your recent track record of assumptions & judgments isn't very good, this issue is case in point.

Unfortunatley, your assumptions aren't improving. You stated:

"If Im correct you are one of the true believers who bought an SRG house and were told that the neighborhood would quickly 'come around', you know, get whiter and wealthier, am I wrong about that?"

- Umm......yes, you are wrong about that. Waaaaay off. I lived in the 'hood for a over a year before my wife & I purchased a 100 year old home. Do you really think an SRG owner would have a Kanye West qoute as thier sig? I've lived in transitional neighborhoods before and am comfortable / familar with the process.


"For the record, I have recieved four emails from readers asking if you have a vendetta against spar because your posts are making them seem like a bunch of overconfident bigots,(my summation of the various comments) and Ive told each one that I have no idea what your real platform is."

- platform? jeez. I'm not a politican, I don't have a "platform". Also, my comments haven't been presumptious or authoritarian......quite the opposite. I'm in the 'don't jump to conclusions' camp. Not sure that could generate any emails, but people do bring thier own baggage to thier world perspective though. One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist.

Also, I had to get a COA recently. There was no mention of curtains (another attempt to exaggerate and skew, i guess). They made it pretty clear that outside changes have to be approved while inside anything goes.

When's the next MetroJax meeting? Perhaps i'll stop by and say Hi. Meet you guys formally. I'm nice.

[thelakelander]

SPAR should be providing a solution to all that.

Instead, they have used their position to decide which buildings should be demolished, apparently for financial considerations, and over the objections and opinion of the person with a college degree on the subject who was hired by the city to help make those determinations.

This is the very crux of the argument.

When it suits SPAR, the historic details are very relevant.  When it suits the financial considerations of property developers, bombs away.

Can you prove this by posting the data to back these claims up?  

1. A list of buildings demolished by SPAR (this would offer evidence of a pattern or trend).

2. How did the demolished buildings bring money to SPAR (this would directly tie SPAR financially to the pattern or trend).

3. What is Joel's opinion on these specific projects? (does he really believe no house in Springfield should be demolished, including the non contributing structures?)

This type of information would give your side of this debate more credibility because facts are facts.  As you know, when the Metro Jacksonville group officially backs a project or ideal, we cover these types of bases to shore up our argument (ex. BRT DT transit mall, commuter rail, etc.) before laying out our case.