St. Augustine - Amtrak choses city site for terminal

[jandar]

Living in Clay County, I would definitely drive over to St Augustine for a trip south versus off of US1.

[Ocklawaha]

Anyone feeling inspired? Everglades City.


Naples, Florida

Amtrak choses city site for terminal

Location will be at end of Malaga

By PETER GUINTA  |   More by this reporter  |  peter.guinta@staugustine.com  |   Posted: Sunday, October 4, 2009 ; Updated: 11:04 PM on Sunday, October 4, 2009

Passenger-rail giant Amtrak has selected a site at the end of Malaga Street, across U.S. 1 and north and west of the Main Fire Station, as the site where a new railroad passenger terminal should be built.

Vice Mayor Errol Jones said Friday that there once was a Flagler-era station near that spot.

Vice Mayor Jones, you only need to look East across the street (US 1) from the FEC tracks at Malaga, to see the original
station. It was a "head house" type station with trains either backing in or backing out. It sat just north of the former FEC office towers, and tiny Florida East Coast park is all that remains of it today. The new Fire station, not only sits on the site, but it's design reflects the original depot. As for station design? Stay true to St.Augustine's Spanish era.  There are many old mission style stations in Florida. Everglades City had/has a beautiful station, as well as Naples, Boca Raton and even Orlando. Also Mr. Vice Mayor, don't let DOT sell you a station without at LEAST two house tracks. IE: tracks that branch off the mainline and run in front of the rail side of the depot. Not only will that ease congestion, it allows the St. Augustine bound Amtrak trains, the ability to board or discharge passengers while big Florida East Coast freight trains pass by. Lastly, it sets up a clear space to store commuter rail equipment laying over for the morning rush into Jacksonville.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Any idea of how much it would cost to set up a temporary station make shift at the Prime Osborn?

no clue...but I think it was reported that the St. Augustine station would cost about $15 million

We could tackle this from so many common sense ways as to make this thread almost funny. Lake, as I pointed out with my railroad contractor friends... all we  need is two 1,000 foot platforms with butterfly shed roofs. The four stub track, two platform area should sit on top of the fill running from Lee/Park Viaduct - dead end, westward. A platform at the low level of the FEC track is going to be a massive problem and may seal off all movements south of Jacksonville, anytime we have a tropical storm. FLOOD PLAIN!

My suggestion would be either locate a double wide modular station, with side walks around the end of the stub tracks, in the Northeast corner of Jacksonville Terminals parking lot and the viaduct. The better option would be reopen the pedestrian subway, use the two ramps that still exist. Restore the tunnels to the south doors of the old JTCO concourse. Use the "ball room" as the waiting room (as God intended) and the old ticket windows reopen. Meanwhile the Convention centers offices and exhibit space could be left in place for the time being.

Using the tunnels rather then the end - round sidewalks, and modular station, gives us infrastructure we won't have to move or change. Meanwhile lets set about to raise that stupid viaduct and get the convention center out of the station.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

This project could have up to six trains a day.  Jax really needs to find a way to get that station back downtown ASAP.

Initially, two trains would be running northbound and southbound; however, this could grow to 4 - 6 trains daily.  Early forecasts indicate the new passenger rail service would experience up to 250,000 annual riders.  The trip between Jacksonville and Miami should take roughly 6 hours.

According to a report submitted by the Florida DOT & Amtrak on the high-speed inter-city passenger rail program, the entire rail project gets built for about $350,000 per mile as opposed to most passenger rail projects which come in at the $5 - 10 Million per mile range.

The report goes on to predict that Amtrak's inaugural passenger train run on FEC rails is likely to become a significant media event - scheduled to be completed in October 2012; just in time for the November 2012 elections.

full article: http://www.historiccity.com/2009/staugustine/news/florida/amtrak-fec-corridor-project-on-track-1797

[JeffreyS]

I hope St. Augustine's station is inspired and every Jacksonville resident that visits sees it and is envious to the point of wanting one.

[CS Foltz]

Jacksonville still suffers from Administration's lack of vision and planning........and will continue to do so until this Administration is changed! Have said before no vision, no planning and no business acumen!

[brainstormer]

Once again, St. John's County gets the tourists and the positive exposure.  This will turn into a huge economic boost for their city and generate growth despite the slow economy.  I love how their mayor is at the forefront, leading the charge.  He is excited and that excitement becomes contagious.  I bet he has been pushing and pushing for this to happen. 
Meanwhile we will continue here in Duval, to argue about why people don't come downtown and for some reason we just can't figure out how to deter crime or get rid of the homeless.  But a nicer Metro Park will really solve all that, right?  Oh, and all of our historic buildings are falling down and this darn economy.  Poor us....and now these higher taxes...and the Jags are going to leave us.  Blah Blah Blah.  I'm so sick of it!  We just keep blaming other people and the past and recycling the same dumb ideas.   And while our leaders are busy trying to boost their own careers, they forget about just doing what's best for the city.  They forget to be the leaders and the visionaries.  What a bunch of lazy, selfish pricks.  I will be voting for 0 incumbents in the next election.  Our leaders do not listen, do not serve, and frankly, I don't think they care as long as they get a paycheck every two weeks.
Yeah, I'm pretty much over Jacksonville...sorry for the negative tone but this city is turning me into a bitter old man.

[Ocklawaha]

Once again, St. John's County gets the tourists and the positive exposure.  This will turn into a huge economic boost for their city and generate growth despite the slow economy.  I love how their mayor is at the forefront, leading the charge.  He is excited and that excitement becomes contagious.  I bet he has been pushing and pushing for this to happen. 
Meanwhile we will continue here in Duval, to argue about why people don't come downtown and for some reason we just can't figure out how to deter crime or get rid of the homeless.  But a nicer Metro Park will really solve all that, right?  Oh, and all of our historic buildings are falling down and this darn economy.  Poor us....and now these higher taxes...and the Jags are going to leave us.  Blah Blah Blah.  I'm so sick of it!  We just keep blaming other people and the past and recycling the same dumb ideas.   And while our leaders are busy trying to boost their own careers, they forget about just doing what's best for the city.  They forget to be the leaders and the visionaries.  What a bunch of lazy, selfish pricks.  I will be voting for 0 incumbents in the next election.  Our leaders do not listen, do not serve, and frankly, I don't think they care as long as they get a paycheck every two weeks.
Yeah, I'm pretty much over Jacksonville...sorry for the negative tone but this city is turning me into a bitter old man.

Cheer up bro... we are going to get all of these trains, and it really doesn't matter one bit if Miami, Tampa, Orlando or Tallahassee likes it or not. One thing is CERTAIN (thanks to Tallahassee and FDOT or even the USDOD's excellent planning), if it's on rails, going anywhere South of here, it is going to come through JACKSONVILLE!

To use a military analogy, all cities are in some way or another locked in deadly warfare. The one with the most perks when the world ends, wins the big prize. So consider that Jacksonville, is rather like a lone Zero aircraft, and all of the competition is flying Hellcats... Hey! it could be worse, they COULD be in Raptors! LOL!

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

This project could have up to six trains a day.  Jax really needs to find a way to get that station back downtown ASAP.

Initially, two trains would be running northbound and southbound; however, this could grow to 4 - 6 trains daily.  Early forecasts indicate the new passenger rail service would experience up to 250,000 annual riders.  The trip between Jacksonville and Miami should take roughly 6 hours.

According to a report submitted by the Florida DOT & Amtrak on the high-speed inter-city passenger rail program, the entire rail project gets built for about $350,000 per mile as opposed to most passenger rail projects which come in at the $5 - 10 Million per mile range.

The report goes on to predict that Amtrak's inaugural passenger train run on FEC rails is likely to become a significant media event - scheduled to be completed in October 2012; just in time for the November 2012 elections.

full article: http://www.historiccity.com/2009/staugustine/news/florida/amtrak-fec-corridor-project-on-track-1797

Ocklawaha's crystal ball... "Lake, this will be the start of Florida's own version of a Surfliner Corridor."

OCKLAWAHA

[Charles Hunter]

What is the friggin' big deal?  Built a cheap tempo station at Prime Osborne until something better comes along.

That would make sense.  Perhaps that's the problem?  It makes too much sense.  Anyway, kudos to St. Augustine.  At least this community seems to get it.  I'm looking forward to what they will put up.  Knowing that its adjacent to the historic district, it should be impressive.

The FEC application states that the initial phase includes a stop at the current Amtrak station...in the second phase, service is moved to the JRTC (Prime Osborn) - to be built by others.

BTW....The North Florida TPO endorsed 3 projects for TIGER funding, including the JRTC....but from what I can tell, a decision was made at the state level to funnel all that potential grant money to the Miami Intermodal Center

I thought that cities could make their own applications, directly to TIGER, and that state apps were separate?  Maybe the city and state projects would compete, but the state couldn't shut down local apps.

[reednavy]

Good for St. Augustine. They should consider sending the streetcar down King Street to end at the waterfront, or continue up past the fort.

It'd require the removal of a few traffic lanes, but would be a tremendous benefit.

[thelakelander]

Ocklawaha's crystal ball... "Lake, this will be the start of Florida's own version of a Surfliner Corridor."

OCKLAWAHA

Let's hope so!

[CS Foltz]

Amtrak should have stepped up before now, but better late than never. I really don't care if we have to pitch tents to establish a rail center but who ever is in charge should have seen the lack of infrastructure where the Amtrak station is currently located at! A vision and a plan would be nice......if nothing else drag out something that is gathering dust in a drawer somewhere and lets get things moving!

[tufsu1]

How was Amtrak supposed to step up when the administration in charge was trying to dismantle it?

[Ocklawaha]

Baltimore and Ohio, observation lounge, "Who the hell boarded this train at 2am?"

Amtrak should have stepped up before now, but better late than never. I really don't care if we have to pitch tents to establish a rail center but who ever is in charge should have seen the lack of infrastructure where the Amtrak station is currently located at! A vision and a plan would be nice......if nothing else drag out something that is gathering dust in a drawer somewhere and lets get things moving!

CS, When this horrid location was picked for Amtrak, they were still suffering from "Fedreal Reconstruction", of the same idiocy as The War of Yankee Aggression. The early Amtrak system was:

1. Planned to be bare bones, do the absolute minimum, and die quietly. Frankly it was a administration scam. The well documented reaction of the Penn Central officials dancing through the headquarters shouting "We've done it! We did it! We've SHOT the Passenger Train!"

2. Just as in the War reconstruction, the few people they did drag in were mostly from other industries, AIR and BUS. The thinking was the railroads have screwed this up and they don't know how to run passenger services but "WE DO." NOT!

3. At that time we had national reservations offices in Jacksonville, as well as what would become Amtrak South, executive offices, sales etc. It wasn't hard to talk to the former railroad executives they had on staff and hear the horror story's of the new "Amtrak Think."

4. The railroaders at Jacksonville Terminal, as well as those who survived the move to "Clifford Lane's" AMSHACK, cursed the building, the layout, the track plan (if one could call it that), the operations, switching, you name it, they hated/HATE it even today.

5. Amtrak left downtown as the "rent was too high..." They didn't need but one extra track for the Jacksonville trains and there was no need for anything else. Certainly they didn't need the service facilities that Jacksonville Terminal offered.

6. Then the fuel crisis, suddenly a couple of extra trains were running, and splitting at Jacksonville. So they ordered two more tracks, both short stubs, to store equipment. Then they had to install express facilities, they also installed fuel racks, giant walk in freezers and commissary, crew rooms, lounge, etc... By the time we had a couple of new trains, Amtrak had managed to piece together all of the SAME STUFF they already had at Jax Terminal! Some savings eh?

7. Lastly, they said they would NEVER use another back in station... Hum? Didn't seem to harm operations in Los Angeles! Backing movements were too time consuming, as if rail travelers as a whole would give a damn. Tampa nearly lost it's Union Station, (for the same reasons) and had it not been for some quick legwork at both City and Amtrak levels, it would probably been torn down. Then suddenly many years later service to Tallahassee was restored. Tallahassee had been on the original USDOT map of REQUIRED Amtrak station stops, but was ignored until the Sunset Limited started running. Amtrak then had an "OH MY gOD" moment! The new Sunset train would HAVE to back in at Clifford Lane!

So there you have it, total insanity. Losing all of those downtown facilities, and operation plans, then going out in Northwest Jax, between two junk yards and almost underneath a highway overpass, and rebuilt every expensive toy they had just said they didn't need!! I don't know a single railroader of this era, that thought Amtrak showed any discernible brain activity.

How was Amtrak supposed to step up when the administration in charge was trying to dismantle it?

Great point, tufsu1, EVERY administration from Nixon through Bush, was openly hostile to Amtrak. I'm convinced that bringing in Paul Reistrup as CEO probably saved all of our remaining national system. Reistrup, was a former Baltimore and Ohio, passenger executive, with a rabid desire for Amtrak success. He even did a lot of classic Reistrup, inspections, boarding a train at a tiny depot in the middle of BFE, usually unrecognized, he took names and kicked ass, he also repaid service oriented employees handsomely for excellence. W. Graham Claytor, was a attorney for the Southern Railway (today's Norfolk Southern). During the 60's he formulated every trick in the book to sweep the passenger trains off of the Southern. Keeping the system out of Amtrak, under his leadership, the remaining trains became legend, so did he. Claytor followed Reistrup by a few years at Amtrak, with the former reintroducing luxury and excellence, and the later saving the railroad.

Ocklawaha's crystal ball... "Lake, this will be the start of Florida's own version of a Surfliner Corridor."

OCKLAWAHA

Let's hope so!

When one considers that Orlando - Tampa, has merited only a single train (mostly due to budget butchers), its easy to see how this is the first true, heavy travel corridor besides the Northeast where Amtrak has gone head to head with Air and "Free"ways. At worse this should quickly become the Southeasts "unplanned" corridor to success, similar to California's San Joaquin trains. At best we'll see real Surfliner style services as passenger demands push two trains into four, into six etc...

OCKLAWAHA