Jacksonville paying millions to cover losses for parking garages

[ChriswUfGator]

4. Imagine how empty the garages might stay if we made all street parking free w/ no time limits

Yeah, wouldn't it be great? That's the whole point.

[tufsu1]

Where's Tufsu when you need him?

designing garages, one assumes

or perhaps at a local organization meeting....you know, volunteering to make the community better!

It is a bit late tonight, so I'll look through this tomorrow and, if need be, respond

Yeah the parking policies you promote & defend have surely made things better alright. For exactly 3 people.

I'm sure Rimmer will send you a "Thanks" from the satphone on his yacht.

wait...so now you're attacking me for volunteering on the board of a local community organization (not a development-related one btw)....nice!

[vicupstate]

NOT ONE PERSON has proposed unlimited free parking, tufsu1.

I have not read all of this, because it is so lengthy, but DVI is not the culprit.  They are just an arm of the city. Peyton is the father and executor of this idea, for good or bad.

I never thought it was a good idea to guarantee a profit to MPS, and states as much before the garages were built.  

[tufsu1]

NOT ONE PERSON has proposed unlimited free parking, tufsu1.

not true vic...both Stephen and Chris support the idea of no on-street parking limits

[fieldafm]

Wow. So Jax is paying more a year on subsidizing half empty downtown parking garages than JTA pays for the skyway?  I wonder why no one has ever mentioned this before?

And Lake you may remember that in order to justify building these parkingscrapers, Rimmer was instrumental in getting the ordinances changed, raising the parking tickets from 5 dollars to 15.

After they changed the fees (tripling them in most cases), rimmer and associates then drove around downtown for months, having memorized all the statutes, and would begin calling in and complaining all day as 'citizens' (while he was still using the DVI address, incidentally) until parking enforcement was issuing two and three tickets at a time.  People were leaving downtown with 70 dollar tickets.

All to force people to use the garages.

prick.

Who know this would open such a can of worms 

[ChriswUfGator]

Tufsu, these parking policies have killed the urban core.

We've tried it your way, and it's failed miserably. For the city, for taxpayers, for business owners, for everyone. What exactly would be wrong with eliminating these asinine policies and getting rid of parking meters? We already tried it your way, it doesn't work.

I think a reasonable compromise is Jerry's idea, which is scrapping all meters and replacing it with open parking with a REASONABLE (e.g., not 30 minutes) time-limit. Barring that, I say get rid of paid parking altogether. Since we've finally determined the real number of workers down there is 7,000 (down from 90,000 thanks in large part to your parking policies), every single worker would have to bring 5 cars with them before we'd start to have a shortage.

These asinine policies do nothing more than create an artificially inflated price for something there is an oversupply of and no demand for. And now we know we're all actually paying for it as taxpayers. Nice.

[tufsu1]

ok...so here are my thoughts:

1. It sucks that the City agreed to this deal in the first place
2. That said, if the City had built the garages, the cost to taxpayers would have been much higher
3. Things wouldn't have been so bad if the courthouse was built on schedule (like the garage was)
4. Imagine how empty the garages might stay if we made all street parking free w/ no time limits

your points two and four cancel each other out, dont they?

And if we can imagine that they would be empty, then doesnt that make the point that they were completely unecessary?

well realistucally there aren't many streets down by the sports complex...so there's not much opportunity for on-street parking....and those garages do just fine when there are events at the dtsaium, ballpark, and/or arena....they were clearly built for that purpose.

And I'm also willing to bet the courhouse garage will be well used once the building opens....and here's why...

As has been noted here before, there are streets downtown that don't have meters and yet remain without many parked cars...meanwhile,  many people continue to use meter spots....maybe, just maybe, they like to park near their destination.

[ChriswUfGator]

ok...so here are my thoughts:

1. It sucks that the City agreed to this deal in the first place
2. That said, if the City had built the garages, the cost to taxpayers would have been much higher
3. Things wouldn't have been so bad if the courthouse was built on schedule (like the garage was)
4. Imagine how empty the garages might stay if we made all street parking free w/ no time limits

your points two and four cancel each other out, dont they?

And if we can imagine that they would be empty, then doesnt that make the point that they were completely unecessary?

well realistucally there aren't many streets down by the sports complex...so there's not much opportunity for on-street parking....and those garages do just fine when there are events at the dtsaium, ballpark, and/or arena....they were clearly built for that purpose.

And I'm also willing to bet the courhouse garage will be well used once the building opens....and here's why...

As has been noted here before, there are streets downtown that don't have meters and yet remain without many parked cars...meanwhile,  many people continue to use meter spots....maybe, just maybe, they like to park near their destination.

Of course the courthouse garage will be used, no $h!t sherlock! It's not like the defendants, their lawyers, the court reporters, the court clerks and judicial employees can all decide they're not going to go there because of the asinine parking policies, can they?

It's a completely captive audience. What a ridiculous argument!

[tufsu1]

ok Chris....maybe (although I doubt it) we can end this debate...

As I have said all along, I support any/all of the following measures

1. replacing the meters with smart meters which take coins, credit cards, cell phone payments, etc.
2. replacing meters with parking boxes (1 per block)
3. removing meters and having time-restricted free parking....in some places, it may need to be no more than 30 minutes (like in front of the UPS store...ask them about the 2 hour meters)...but probably can't be more than 3 hours anywhere

[ChriswUfGator]

3. removing meters and having time-restricted free parking....in some places, it may need to be no more than 30 minutes (like in front of the UPS store...ask them about the 2 hour meters)...but probably can't be more than 3 hours anywhere

I think that's a reasonable compromise, except it ought to be a blanket 2 or 3 hours everywhere. It's an urban area, the reality is that people need to learn they might have to walk a half a block. Also, we've all seen how these politico weasels manipulate the system, and how parking enforcement twists the law (e.g., issuing 3 and 4 tickets at a time to the same vehicle for the same offense, because nothing says they can't).

I believe there need to be no loopholes whatsoever in the policy that would allow for the continuation of "business as usual." To that end, I think allowing anyone the leeway to declare 30 minute time limits and then enforce them would wind up with the same disastrous results as the parking meters have. Next thing we'd know, all of downtown would be a 30-minute limit. And the whole point is to simplify things such that people go down there, so having a bunch of different time zones would defeat the goal of eliminating confusion.

I think it should be "no less than" 2 or 3 hours, with some of the outlying areas where nobody ever parks being de-limited altogether. But we're making progress on this debate, I'll give you that. The current policies do nothing except continue to kill what little is left of downtown, and cost the taxpayers hugely, while enriching 3 individuals.

[vicupstate]

DT Greenville has 2 hr non-metered parking throughout,  but certain select spaces are designated with 15 or 30 minute limits.  The lower limits are specifically at the 'in and out' businesses like banks.  Not all of the spaces near 'in and out' businesses are 15/30 minutes, just the closest ones.   After 6pm and on weekends, all street parking is free  and unlimited as are a couple of the garages as well.

It works very, very well.  It is a challenge to find a space on Friday and Saturday evenings, as all the restaurants are packed all evening (not a bad problem to have), otherwise it is a breeze.     

[CS Foltz]

stjr............by my standards, tis a dead heat on which is the most incompetant! I think there is a difference between incompetance and outright stealing.............take your pick either one and either way!

[brainstormer]

I am cheap and most of the time proud of it.  I refuse to pay ridiculous amounts for parking downtown and have never once in the past 3 years I've lived here paid to park in one of the privately run garages.  Paying $3-6 to run errands is stupid!  So what do I do?

1) I don't mind walking.  During the day I will park in the free-1 hour limit spot on Adams and walk to Burrito Gallery, Main Library, Chamblins, Bank of America or my eye doctor.

2) If those spots are taken, which now they probably will be since I shared my secret, then I will park in an open meter because 50 cents is acceptable to pay in my mind.  There are usually a lot of open meters on the western blocks past Hogan.  People just need to stop being fat and be willing to walk a block or two!

3) After 6 I always park in the free courthouse lot if I'm going to the Landing or Bay Street.  If I'm going to the TU I park on the free side streets north of Forsyth and West of Hogan.  It's completely dead up there.

4) If I'm attending the Arena or a Suns game, there is free parking on streets to the northwest of the jail and only about a half mile walk to the Arena.

5) Artwalk can be tricky, but there are always open spots by the churches.

I wonder how many people are like me?  If there are a lot, then it will give you some insight into the parking situation downtown and how it could be improved and/or why the city entered into what they should have seen as a stupid-ass agreement.  Peyton and his crooks are so arrogant! 

[brainstormer]

Detective stephen...who was behind the initial push for BRT on all of the downtown streets?  I just realized that by making all of the street parking into bus only lanes, they might have thought they could force everyone into parking in their expensive garages.  Will getting rid of street parking around the new courthouse force everyone into their parking garage?  Are these same folks behind why we can't put BRT in its grave?

[stjr]

Brainstormer, I think the City is eliminating 75 parking spaces on Broad and Jefferson for BRT.  JTA said they were only used 5% of the time.  Of course, that's without consideration of the completion of the courthouse.  Don't you just love how they think ahead at COJ and JTA?

And, I agree, there is a conspiracy to eliminate street parking over time downtown.  I mentioned this before and was chastised for being a bit paranoid but, sorry, it's true and its happening day by day, a little bit here and little bit there.

P.S. Is Laura Street losing any street parking to the rebuild?

As to your avoidance of paid parking, especially garages, I follow the same "rules of engagement" you do.  I pride myself in mostly avoiding paying at all, and certainly no more than 1 to 2 hours on a meter.  Not only are garages expensive, they are tight to navigate, and, the worst, when an event is over, you can wait 30 to 45 minutes to exit one.  All this for a premium price!    And, for the most part, none of them have validated parking programs with businesses downtown.  So, the businesses and the garages just sit empty.

Here is another idea:  When meeting people for a downtown event, park just outside of downtown and pile into one car.  Save looking for parking spaces blocks apart from each other and the costs.

In the end, sadly, like has been said here, many times downtown is just not considered due to the poor navigation and user-friendliness of the place.  And, I really do love being down there to boot.

Growing up, the best place to park was CSX.  But, then they got tight fisted, fenced their property, and put up electric gates and "no parking" or "reserved 24 hrs. for CSX" signs.  It looks like they use their parking as an "employee benefit" for events downtown as I do see some of them swooping in for shows at the TUPAC.