Jacksonville paying millions to cover losses for parking garages

[CS Foltz]

stjr....I agree! There is definitely something wrong with the parking for sure! What there is, could be considered not user friendly by any stretch of the imagination! COJ and JTA can not plan their way out of a wet paper bag and the proposed BRT, we taxpayers will be funding, is a crock of crud! So much wrong with it and still the problems JTA has with ridership numbers, drivers without common courtesy and the lack of shelters throughout the system just leaves me cold! JTA still has not posted operating numbers for last year have they?

[Jerry Moran]

DT Greenville has 2 hr non-metered parking throughout,  but certain select spaces are designated with 15 or 30 minute limits.  The lower limits are specifically at the 'in and out' businesses like banks.  Not all of the spaces near 'in and out' businesses are 15/30 minutes, just the closest ones.   After 6pm and on weekends, all street parking is free  and unlimited as are a couple of the garages as well.

It works very, very well.  It is a challenge to find a space on Friday and Saturday evenings, as all the restaurants are packed all evening (not a bad problem to have), otherwise it is a breeze.

Perfect.  What's preventing us from doing this here, and I mean right away?

[Steve]

^Policy

[Timkin]

FIRE policy !

[comncense]

So in you guys opinion, does removing or changing the policies on parking make downtown more attractive to business owners as in bringing in new businesses? I have lived downtown for 2 years and even after leaving, parking has never really been a gripe for me. I always seem to find parking, though I'm never really downtown that much during the day other than the occasional lunch downtown. But whatever is going to get more businesses to move into downtown, I'm all for it.

[Dog Walker]

Years ago around 5 Points all the parking was restricted to two hours.  The nice policeman would come around on his tricycle and mark the back tires of the cars with colored chalk (different color every day).  Two hours later he would circle back around and ticket all those cars that still had marks on the tires and mark the new ones.

No meters, reasonable time limit, no more difficult to enforce than what we have now, BUT, no revenue from meters.

Was always funny to see women in heels and hats crouched down by their cars trying to rub the chalk marks away.

[vicupstate]

Years ago around 5 Points all the parking was restricted to two hours.  The nice policeman would come around on his tricycle and mark the back tires of the cars with colored chalk (different color every day).  Two hours later he would circle back around and ticket all those cars that still had marks on the tires and mark the new ones.

No meters, reasonable time limit, no more difficult to enforce than what we have now, BUT, no revenue from meters.

Was always funny to see women in heels and hats crouched down by their cars trying to rub the chalk marks away.

The Parking enforcement employees use hand-held computers in Greenville.  They type in the plate numbers on their circuit and when a plate number is repeated 2 hrs after it was first entered, it prints a ticket.  No chalk to erase.  Because the circuit takes 15 or so minutes to cover, you normally get 5-15 gratis minutes before a ticket is actually issued.       

[Dog Walker]

Chalk IS old technology!   

[Noone]

Looks like the City Council had second thoughts soon after the deal was done.  But, apparently, going to see Prince in concert was more important!

Published Sunday, May 9, 2004

CITY NOTES: Council to debate recanting support for parking garages

By MATT GALNOR
The Times-Union,

A City Council battle could break out Tuesday in an ongoing tussle about a $50 million deal for downtown Jacksonville parking garages that the council approved in February.

Some council members want Mayor John Peyton to take another look at the deal and have proposed a resolution asking Peyton to do so. Peyton, who would not be legally bound by the resolution, says contracts have been signed and the deal is done.

The council was supposed to take the issue up at its April 27 meeting, but council President Lad Daniels delayed the vote, mostly because he expected extended debate and several members wanted to leave to catch the Prince concert at Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena.

The proposal was approved unanimously in the council's Finance Committee but did not get the required four votes to pass the Recreation, Community Development and Education Committee. Committee members asked Councilman Art Shad, who is strongly opposed to the resolution, to vote for it just to get it out of committee, but Shad refused.

Now, 13 of the 19 members will have to vote Tuesday to take the resolution out of committee, and plenty of debate is expected.

Councilman Warren Alvarez, who along with Daniels sponsored the resolution, says the city is making a 30-year mistake on the garages. Plans call for three garages, two in the sports complex and a third by the new Duval County Courthouse.

As part of the deal, the city will issue $50 million in tax-exempt bonds on behalf of Metropolitan Parking Solutions, which would be responsible for paying off the debt. The city would also make semi-annual loans to the developer so it can cover its debt payments, operating expenses and guarantee the company an 8 percent return on its $3 million investment.

SMG, the company that runs Jacksonville's sports facilities, is paid through concession sales, parking revenue and city subsidies. Some council members said they didn't know at the time of the first vote that SMG estimates it could lose $800,000 annually in parking revenue, which would drive the city subsidy up.

Metropolitan Parking Solutions said that estimate isn't accurate, and Peyton's office said the council had ample time to review the proposal.

"I'm man enough to admit I made a mistake," Alvarez said.

Stephen, I stand corrected. Warren Alvarez initially voted for MPS but it was in the resolution to have it reversed that he brought this mistake that we now know is true as being a taxpayer nightmare. That's what I recall and he was crunching some numbers at that time that should of had it reversed.

Good thing that the city council just voted themselves free parking under this new DIA. Is there any update on the $20,000 emergency no bid contract for the new comfy chairs?

[mbwright]

I don't recall anything that Alvarez did that did not benefit someone, other than the politicians, contractors, and such, at the expense of the tax payers.  He never saw a bad development.

[Overstreet]

Companies will continue to leave downtown until the landlords of the office buildings and the parking facilities decide to compete with the suburbs. They have to do it with either rates, rents, or amenities. But they are not trying now. 

[simms3]

Every city has to compete with the burbs.  Office rental rates in the best suburban locations in Jax seem on par, if not slightly higher, than rental rates DT.  Amenities in buildings downtown likely far surpass those found in the burbs already, simply due to size and concentration (and being near lunch spots and after work entertainment is a big amenity when compared to suburban locations).  Parking in DT Jax is really really cheap, of course it seems expensive compared to free parking in Deerwood, but ~$80/mo probably on average?  Nashville is probably close to double that already.

Landlords of the office buildings are held hostage by a lack of vision from the city overall and a lack of high brow business in general, which would typically locate in a CBD tower over a suburban campus.  Pricing of DT office buildings reflects this, as there is no rent growth as a result and major vacancy risk.  There is no fault to the landlords on why companies leave DT and there is no reason for them to upgrade their buildings when original pricing is set to allow them to "survive" in this tough market and hopefully walk away with a decent return (which is exceedingly unlikely).

[Garden guy]

This is no worse than the corporate welfare thats been a huge part of cash bleeding from this city.

[Overstreet]

................Landlords of the office buildings are held hostage by a lack of vision from the city overall and a lack of high brow business in general, which would typically locate in a CBD tower over a suburban campus.  Pricing of DT office buildings reflects this, as there is no rent growth as a result and major vacancy risk.  There is no fault to the landlords on why companies leave DT and there is no reason for them to upgrade their buildings when original pricing is set to allow them to "survive" in this tough market and hopefully walk away with a decent return (which is exceedingly unlikely).

Modis would disagree.

[simms3]

................Landlords of the office buildings are held hostage by a lack of vision from the city overall and a lack of high brow business in general, which would typically locate in a CBD tower over a suburban campus.  Pricing of DT office buildings reflects this, as there is no rent growth as a result and major vacancy risk.  There is no fault to the landlords on why companies leave DT and there is no reason for them to upgrade their buildings when original pricing is set to allow them to "survive" in this tough market and hopefully walk away with a decent return (which is exceedingly unlikely).

Modis would disagree.

Modis would disagree to what?