Can Downtown Survive?

[ChriswUfGator]

How about left turns?  

Benefits of one way

Left on red is allowed if one way to one way.  

If you are on a two way two lane road and are making a left you block the traffic behind you while you wait for the traffic going straight to clear, unless of course you get lucky and two people make a left at the same time.  

The convenience benefits of eliminating one-way streets far outweigh the downside of elimintating "Left on Red". Besides, most of the intersections down there have big "No Turn on Red" signs anyway, so it's a moot point...

So you don't forsee a problem with a two lane two way street and people trying to make a left while blocking the intersection and the traffic behind them?  I think its not a moot point and I think it would create more aggravation than it would solve, simple because if you are paying attention most on way streets alternate so you don't need a degree to navigate them.

What are the benefits of changing back to two way streets?

No I don't, because the streets are wide enough to incorporate dedicated left turn lanes. It's a total non-issue.

The benefit is convenience, as I described above.

[JC]

How about left turns?  

Benefits of one way

Left on red is allowed if one way to one way.  

If you are on a two way two lane road and are making a left you block the traffic behind you while you wait for the traffic going straight to clear, unless of course you get lucky and two people make a left at the same time.  

@JC -- You make an excellent point about how one-way streets make it easier to turn left.  It can be frustrating to have to wait for the light to cycle more than once because the car ahead of you is waiting to turn left from a two-way street onto another two-way street.

Yes, you illustrate it better than I did!

[ChriswUfGator]

How about left turns? 

Benefits of one way

Left on red is allowed if one way to one way. 

If you are on a two way two lane road and are making a left you block the traffic behind you while you wait for the traffic going straight to clear, unless of course you get lucky and two people make a left at the same time. 

@JC -- You make an excellent point about how one-way streets make it easier to turn left.  It can be frustrating to have to wait for the light to cycle more than once because the car ahead of you is waiting to turn left from a two-way street onto another two-way street.

Yes, you illustrate it better than I did!

Yes people just LOVE being forced to drive in giant circles and having to wait at a million red-lights, just so they can enjoy the novelty of turning left on red at a handful of them. Seriously, are you people kidding me?

[Jaxson]

I agree with JC - It is legitimate for us to determine the merits of eliminating one-way streets in downtown.  There could be unintended consequences if we move forward without weighing the advantages and disadvantages.

As for me, I would personally prefer a trip around the block to make a left hand turn over waiting for oncoming traffic to clear so I could make that left-hand turn. 
Furthermore, there is also the danger of those who would rather gamble and make a risky left-hand turn in front of oncoming traffic than yield for a few more seconds.

[JC]

How about left turns? 

Benefits of one way

Left on red is allowed if one way to one way. 

If you are on a two way two lane road and are making a left you block the traffic behind you while you wait for the traffic going straight to clear, unless of course you get lucky and two people make a left at the same time. 

@JC -- You make an excellent point about how one-way streets make it easier to turn left.  It can be frustrating to have to wait for the light to cycle more than once because the car ahead of you is waiting to turn left from a two-way street onto another two-way street.

Yes, you illustrate it better than I did!

Yes people just LOVE being forced to drive in giant circles and having to wait at a million red-lights, just so they can enjoy the novelty of turning left on red at a handful of them. Seriously, are you people kidding me?

I am really not kidding... At all... Seems like a waste of money to change all those signs, reline the roads, change the red lights and on and on!  There are bigger fish to fry and bickering about such a non issue seems sort of pointless.  

But I know, "being forced" to do anything is terrible.  Although, in most situations patrons dont have the luxury of parking in front of the business they are visiting anyway so you park close by and WALK, I realize this concept is a novelty in Jacksonville and I wouldnt want anyone to be "forced" to walk but seriously, thats how it works in most metro areas!

[Jaxson]

@JC - Don't forget the logistics of aligning the downtown streets with the various on-ramps, off-ramps and viaducts that connect with the expressways, the bridges, etc.

[JC]

@JC - Don't forget the logistics of aligning the downtown streets with the various on-ramps, off-ramps and viaducts that connect with the expressways, the bridges, etc.

Excellent point!  As you said earlier there could be unintended consequences.  I would also like to add that the money spent on this foolishness could be allocated for commuter rail

[CS Foltz]

I don't think the situation has been studied or analyzed enough yet..................we need to do more studies! JTA needs to take lead on this so it can be stretched out another 20 years!;) I know............lets get some more consulting work done!

[Fallen Buckeye]

You can minimize costs by completing conversion as roads need to to be repaved as roads need to be repaved and repainted from time to time anyways. The real costs would be new mast arm signals. And yes this should absolutely be planned out as to which streets should be converted and which should not before they take any action.  But in the end, I think it is beneficial and makes downtown more user friendly. It's not the most important thing hampering revitalization in DT, but it's something to consider.

[BridgeTroll]

Wow... Jax has got to have the easiest downtown area I have ever had the pleasure to navigate... Driven Boston, San Francisco, LA, Seattle, Honolulu, Chicago, Atlanta, Milwaukee, etc.  Jax is easy compared to some of those places...  BTW... all those downtowns have street metered parking... (more expensive too) though most have the newer systems.

My pet peeve has not yet been mentioned... Driving into or out of downtown early in the morning or late at night and sitting at a red light... seemingly forever... with nary a car in sight.  Same at the next light... and the nextandthenext...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[JC]

Wow... Jax has got to have the easiest downtown area I have ever had the pleasure to navigate... Driven Boston, San Francisco, LA, Seattle, Honolulu, Chicago, Atlanta, Milwaukee, etc.  Jax is easy compared to some of those places...  BTW... all those downtowns have street metered parking... (more expensive too) though most have the newer systems.

My pet peeve has not yet been mentioned... Driving into or out of downtown early in the morning or late at night and sitting at a red light... seemingly forever... with nary a car in sight.  Same at the next light... and the nextandthenext...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

An argument could be made that the lights slow traffic down to make the area safer for pedestrians but the rebuttal would of course be 'what pedestrians.'

[BridgeTroll]

Exactly... I have no problem stopping for traffic auto or pedestrian.  My point is our traffic light system does not seem to take into account times when traffic is very light.  You could easily make a case for flashing yellows at certain intersections late at night or early morning...

[tufsu1]

Besides, most of the intersections down there have big "No Turn on Red" signs anyway, so it's a moot point...

No they don't...I do it all the time...the only ones that restrict turns on red are those with very high pedestrian crossings

As for your parking assertions....downtown has 44,000 total parking paces w/ 20,000 being in the core...this includes the garages/lots that charge....metered spaces only accounts for about 1,600.

Employment is 51,000 in all of downtown, with 18,000 in the core itself.

How many people do you think would use the pay lots/garages if all the street parking was free with no restrictions?

[urbanlibertarian]

Changing one way streets to two way will benefit pedestrians and DT businesses at the expense of motorists (slower speeds) and taxpayers (cost of the switch).  I'm a DT resident and I'm leaning in favor of it.

[urbanlibertarian]

I also support parking meter removal and relaxation of zoning and signage regulation DT to help businesses thrive.