Jacksonville's San Marco: 'No man's land'

[thelakelander]

There are sections that are fenced and other areas with heavy overgrowth.  However, there is no way to cross the tracks on foot between Atlantic and Hendricks without trespassing.

[Charles Hunter]

"No Trespassing" across a RR track?  No one would ever do that!!  On Roosevelt near McDuff, a well-worn path goes right by a couple of those RR No Trespassing signs. 

But, like I said, if there is already a physical barrier along (most of) the FEC in San Marco, adding the Skyway at ground level wouldn't be so bad.  But if not, it would be trading an impenetrable physical barrier for a theoretical (no trespassing) one.

Again, it looks like in this case, it looks like a good application, and would save money over keeping it elevated.

[thelakelander]

From checking it out at ground level, its a pretty physical barrier and the addition of the skyway has more positives than negatives when accessibility is concerned.  You can get better aerials of it using bing's bird's eye view shots.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=p1jcyw85w0xh&scene=35306906&lvl=1&sty=b&where1=Jacksonville%2C%20FL

[Ocklawaha]

"No Trespassing" across a RR track?  No one would ever do that!!  On Roosevelt near McDuff, a well-worn path goes right by a couple of those RR No Trespassing signs. 

But, like I said, if there is already a physical barrier along (most of) the FEC in San Marco, adding the Skyway at ground level wouldn't be so bad.  But if not, it would be trading an impenetrable physical barrier for a theoretical (no trespassing) one.

Again, it looks like in this case, it looks like a good application, and would save money over keeping it elevated.

Charles, those trails across the railroad by McDuff are there because we abandoned the streetcar that once crossed there and people today had rather walk then ride a JTA bus... If they even have that choice.  Anyone know how often the bus rolls down McDuff or Edgewood? The streetcar did it every 10 minutes back in 1930!
SMILE!

As the guy that first proposed the Skyway to the West Side of the Railroad at Atlantic Boulevard my concept was/is very much a intermodal link as good as Rosa Parks.  The station would have COMMUTER RAIL, COMMUNITY BUS, BRT, BUS, and SKYWAY service. My original concept calls for the station to have an elevated Skyway line that drops down (such as the photo Ennis posted) to ground level prior to entering the Atlantic Boulevard Terminus. This is something that might have to change if Jackson Square ever gets off the ground, as they would be the next logical Skyway Station, because in spite of their hype, there is no way in hell anyone is going to stop a commuter train twice within 1/4 mile. If they have the $$ then a further extension south might be an ideal PPP for JTA.

When I presented my ground level concept it caused a stir of "NO WAY!" etc... from JTA officers around the room; sometimes you just have to smile and shake your head. The idea wasn't to save money, rather it was to make the Skyway more user friendly at a terminal that could change the future of the little system. If a double track Skyway line ended at the station, they could be positioned to have a platform on either side, as opposed to the usual Skyway practice of one platform in the center, between the tracks.  With a GROUND LEVEL platform both east and west of the Skyway track, the East platform would serve the Skyway and the Commuter Trains on the nearby FEC RY, while the West platform would serve the Skyway and the JTA buses. People connecting from train to bus would simply pass by South of the bumper posts at the end of the Skyway lines, probably between the station itself and the end of the track.  With all of 25' feet to walk, moving from a train rolling in from the South to the Skyway for a job on the Southbank, would be a snap. Ditto for the 70' foot walk between rail and bus.


This fanciful rendering is looking Southeast from the park. It gives you some general ideas of the broad concept but the details have become more refined.

I'm not a huge fan of running the Skyway on the ground for any distance as it becomes a very dangerous attractive nuisance for some dare to be brave teen to get fried on. Ground level at the station would be very easy to police or monitor.

OCKLAWAHA

[ProjectMaximus]

From checking it out at ground level, its a pretty physical barrier and the addition of the skyway has more positives than negatives when accessibility is concerned.  You can get better aerials of it using bing's bird's eye view shots.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=p1jcyw85w0xh&scene=35306906&lvl=1&sty=b&where1=Jacksonville%2C%20FL

OK. I can't speak for Charles, but I am satisfied. 

[Coolyfett]

"No Trespassing" across a RR track?  No one would ever do that!!  On Roosevelt near McDuff, a well-worn path goes right by a couple of those RR No Trespassing signs. 

But, like I said, if there is already a physical barrier along (most of) the FEC in San Marco, adding the Skyway at ground level wouldn't be so bad.  But if not, it would be trading an impenetrable physical barrier for a theoretical (no trespassing) one.

Again, it looks like in this case, it looks like a good application, and would save money over keeping it elevated.

I know that trail....its there because people used to walk to winn dixie/family dollar there is no sidewalk on that side of Post Street when coming down post or college the sidewalk ends at the 17 overpass

[CS Foltz]

No sidewalks huh? Gee ....I wonder if the nearest bustop has a shelter with a roof? More than likely not but, I digress! This actually makes some sort of sense.............$kyway has to be extended in order to survive, so its real simple! Extend it in a useable direction or shut it down! Even JTA might come to that conclusion! Maybe!

[thelakelander]

I believe that there is nothing new under the sun and that we're better off looking at how other cities have dealt with situations on their own before moving forward with anything locally.

Thus, I have a question about going ground level for the experts.  There are significant portions of DC's Metro at ground level.  How do they keep people off those tracks?  Could the techniques they've found successful at keeping people from being fried be applied to Jacksonville?

[Charles Hunter]

If I remember from my trips there - and Atlanta's MARTA - is tall (8 foot? 10 foot?) chain link fence, possibly topped with barbed wire - but not so sure about that last part. Some are next to interstates or other expressways, so they share the fence on one side. 

My comment was not so much that it can't be done, just pointing out that here at MJ we talk a lot about connectivity and decrying highways that disconnect neighborhoods.  Now, we are talking about creating an uncrossable physical barrier.  But, from lakelander's comments and the pictures of the area, in this case, it seems a ground-level Skyway wouldn't be adding much to the existing barriers.

[thelakelander]

Understood.  Yes, I would not endorse such an idea if I thought it limited pedestrian connectivity or was an negative impact on the surrounding area.  With that said, I would not be a fan of extending the skyway to pierce the borders of historic districts like Riverside/Avondale and Springfield.  While it would help the system, there are serious negative environmental impacts with such an idea.

[Charles Hunter]

I agree, Lake.  So when do you and Ock take over? 

[RiversideLoki]

I remember when Larry opened The Nest (he was kinda knocked off by Nest Living). It was such a neat place. But a little too early for its' time.

Actually, I ripped my name off from a little store I visited in Denmark and another store called "nest" that's a staple design studio in London (Larry 'prolly ripped the name off from them). I actually never had a chance to visit Larry's store as it had closed long before I moved here but I appreciate your comparison as I too am a huge fan of Larry's work.

No offense intended. I loved his store and I love yours.

[Ocklawaha]

Fences + Warnings + common sense, if you fail to get the message, the rail itself will have a lasting lesson for you.










Go for it Bubba, ever see a human cheeto?  This is the only place I've ever seen a truck driver using a tape measure! (Black Mesa and Lake Powell Railroad, AZ)

OCKLAWAHA