Should Hate Be Outlawed?

[Sportmotor]

You can be paid to kill and have no feelings one way or another for it or them, verse killing someone for a specific reason all of your own. (Skin color for your example)


One is hate
The other is not.

Both are bad regardless.

[Ocklawaha]

You have a right to dispute "The girl in the photo", as there are sources that tell three or more stories. Having re-reviewed my sources, I'd guess it WAS military action, just NOT ours.

1. She was hit with napalm or "nerve gas" in an American attack on her village... An American who surfaced and apologized to her in Washington DC. She now works for UNESCO as Vietnam's representative.

PROBLEM with the story, the American Pilot that apologized was a chaplin and we NEVER used nerve gas in the war.


2. She was hit with napalm or "nerve gas" in a South Vietnamese attack on an NVA strong point, the pilot tried to aboard the attack when he saw they were not NVA. Too late, damage done.

A pilot error is understandable but it brings to question how the little girl got out in front of the soldiers... Also, why dirt is still flying after she has cleared the area.  It's obvious that something is crashing or exploding in the background and that whatever burned the girl happened before these shutter moment.


By the way I don't dispute the fact that that it is still violence and wrong. I don't agree that collateral damage is equal with murder for hire. INTENT plays a role in crime, under no case is collateral damage intentional. However, being DEAD from any of the above is unnatural and wrong.


OCKLAWAHA

[JC]

INTENT plays a role in crime, under no case is collateral damage intentional. However, being DEAD from any of the above is unnatural and wrong.


OCKLAWAHA

[NotNow]

JC says "Again, I ask, whats the difference between killing innocent civilians (collateral damage) shooting someone for $50 or lynching someone for the color of their skin? "

JC, you obviously have no idea of what you are talking about.  I am not making fun of your ignorance, I am simply pointing out a common problem on these forums.  If your argument is that there should never be armed conflict among nations, or even in our communities, then you are just being naive.  Those individuals that you would call "criminal" have protected this country from facing the horrors that Japan, Germany, Britain, France, and other countries have suffered.  I'll say it once more, the use of force is never as exact as one would want.  This is as true with a pistol as with a squadron of bombers.  Although those that use force in our name are better trained than anyone else in the world, there will still be casualties due to the circumstances of combat.  The need for the protection of our society must come first, even as we develop our technology and training to minimize those casualties.  To not use force when required would be tantamount to suicide.

[buckethead]

Does he refer to intent, or lack thereof?

I killed them accidentally, or I killed them because they had twinkies and I was hungry.

It is amusing though, watching you accuse your countrymen of every unimaginable crime commited. (You'd be surprised how many here are opposed to just about every war in recent memory, btw. I just don't agree with your views of the American soldier as a genecidal maniac)

You axed some questions (along with posting some graphic pictures). You waited for answers.

This, after questions were axed of you. I wait for answers as well.

[JC]

JC says "Again, I ask, whats the difference between killing innocent civilians (collateral damage) shooting someone for $50 or lynching someone for the color of their skin? "

JC, you obviously have no idea of what you are talking about.  I am not making fun of your ignorance, I am simply pointing out a common problem on these forums.  If your argument is that there should never be armed conflict among nations, or even in our communities, then you are just being naive.  Those individuals that you would call "criminal" have protected this country from facing the horrors that Japan, Germany, Britain, France, and other countries have suffered.  I'll say it once more, the use of force is never as exact as one would want.  This is as true with a pistol as with a squadron of bombers.  Although those that use force in our name are better trained than anyone else in the world, there will still be casualties due to the circumstances of combat.  The need for the protection of our society must come first, even as we develop our technology and training to minimize those casualties.  To not use force when required would be tantamount to suicide.

So you have not watched Robert McNamara in the Fog Of War?  

The US was not under threat from Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan or arguably even Korea.  The thing is, you are playing the moral relativism game, choosing which types of death are appropriate because they best suit your needs.  You can call me ignorant for simply not sharing your view but you are wrong, I am not ignorant I just see things differently than you do.  

[buckethead]

Is reverse racism where a person (of any particular race) considers him/herself to be genetically superior to members of his own race?

Is it when a person considers his/her own race genetically inferior?

Please clarify.

?

[JC]

Does he refer to intent, or lack thereof?

I killed them accidentally, or I killed them because they had twinkies and I was hungry.

It is amusing though, watching you accuse your countrymen of every unimaginable crime commited. (You'd be surprised how many here are opposed to just about every war in recent memory, btw. I just don't agree with your views of the American soldier as a genecidal maniac)

You axed some questions (along with posting some graphic pictures). You waited for answers.

This, after questions were axed of you. I wait for answers as well.

My reason for even mentioning what US soldiers have done or war commanders have ordered is to simply put in your face that you are being as hypocritical as anyone else because you are making a moral judgment about who its ok to kill and why its ok to kill them.  Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians have been murdered in this conflict, some at the hands of other Iraqis, contractors and the US military.  This not wanting to question the actions of individuals because they have been hoisted on a pedestal is crap and I think you know it.  Besides, I didnt ask anyone to sign a contract and fly off to Iraq and I dont appreciate it because its dumb and I am certain that MANY of the young men and women who signed up did so for economic reasons and are being used like... well fill in the blank.

[JC]

Is reverse racism where a person (of any particular race) considers him/herself to be genetically superior to members of his own race?

Is it when a person considers his/her own race genetically inferior?

Please clarify.

?

I did clarify, I said I should have said reverse discrimination. But I did not coin the term and am amused by its seeming irony and was using it in "" to be ironic because there is no such thing in my opinion.

[NotNow]

I have watched "Fog of War".  

I would recommend personal experience if you really want to know how civilian casualties occur, both innocent and not.  Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Korea were military actions in support of allied governments, as was the declaration of war against Germany in 1941.  Whether the "threat" to America is tomorrow or in years is subjective and should be discussed in another thread.  I am not choosing which deaths are appropriate, my government is.  When my government places fighting men in combat against another armed power, I recognize that the lives of those Americans are paramount, and that they will use the appropriate amount of force to complete their objective.  Your ignorance is in understanding that the application of that force is never an exact science, and an infinite number of variables will always exist.  I don't really care how you "see" things, this country and others will continue to use force when required or desired, and that force will continue to be inexact in its application.  Those two facts are irrefutable.

[buckethead]

Does he refer to intent, or lack thereof?

I killed them accidentally, or I killed them because they had twinkies and I was hungry.

It is amusing though, watching you accuse your countrymen of every unimaginable crime commited. (You'd be surprised how many here are opposed to just about every war in recent memory, btw. I just don't agree with your views of the American soldier as a genecidal maniac)

You axed some questions (along with posting some graphic pictures). You waited for answers.

This, after questions were axed of you. I wait for answers as well.

My reason for even mentioning what US soldiers have done or war commanders have ordered is to simply put in your face that you are being as hypocritical as anyone else because you are making a moral judgment about who its ok to kill and why its ok to kill them.  Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians have been murdered in this conflict, some at the hands of other Iraqis, contractors and the US military.  This not wanting to question the actions of individuals because they have been hoisted on a pedestal is crap and I think you know it.  Besides, I didnt ask anyone to sign a contract and fly off to Iraq and I dont appreciate it because its dumb and I am certain that MANY of the young men and women who signed up did so for economic reasons and are being used like... well fill in the blank.

I am not making any judgement about it being okay to kill anyone. You made the judgement that it is worse to murder a person out of hate (presumably racially based hate) than it is to murder based on a different motive.

You are the one willing to make  the moral relativist call.

[JC]

I have watched "Fog of War".  

I would recommend personal experience if you really want to know how civilian casualties occur, both innocent and not.  Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Korea were military actions in support of allied governments, as was the declaration of war against Germany in 1941.  Whether the "threat" to America is tomorrow or in years is subjective and should be discussed in another thread.  I am not choosing which deaths are appropriate, my government is.  When my government places fighting men in combat against another armed power, I recognize that the lives of those Americans are paramount, and that they will use the appropriate amount of force to complete their objective.  Your ignorance is in understanding that the application of that force is never an exact science, and an infinite number of variables will always exist.  I don't really care how you "see" things, this country and others will continue to use force when required or desired, and that force will continue to be inexact in its application.  Those two facts are irrefutable.

You keep saying that I am ignorant in understanding the application of force, well I have my own experience with this and understand it as much as any other 6531 in the USMC would understand it.

I agree, those two facts are irrefutable but it does not mean that I will sit idly and silently by as they happen.  

[NotNow]

Does he refer to intent, or lack thereof?

I killed them accidentally, or I killed them because they had twinkies and I was hungry.

It is amusing though, watching you accuse your countrymen of every unimaginable crime commited. (You'd be surprised how many here are opposed to just about every war in recent memory, btw. I just don't agree with your views of the American soldier as a genecidal maniac)

You axed some questions (along with posting some graphic pictures). You waited for answers.

This, after questions were axed of you. I wait for answers as well.

My reason for even mentioning what US soldiers have done or war commanders have ordered is to simply put in your face that you are being as hypocritical as anyone else because you are making a moral judgment about who its ok to kill and why its ok to kill them.  Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians have been murdered in this conflict, some at the hands of other Iraqis, contractors and the US military.  This not wanting to question the actions of individuals because they have been hoisted on a pedestal is crap and I think you know it.  Besides, I didnt ask anyone to sign a contract and fly off to Iraq and I dont appreciate it because its dumb and I am certain that MANY of the young men and women who signed up did so for economic reasons and are being used like... well fill in the blank.

Well, you are entitled to your OPINION.  Crimes which have occurred in Iraq and AQ have been prosecuted by both American and AQ authorities.  The deaths of any human beings is regrettable, but if a nation or organization commits itself to battle, then the results will always be destroyed property and death on one side or the other.  I will always prefer that it be the other side myself.

[NotNow]

Does he refer to intent, or lack thereof?

I killed them accidentally, or I killed them because they had twinkies and I was hungry.

It is amusing though, watching you accuse your countrymen of every unimaginable crime commited. (You'd be surprised how many here are opposed to just about every war in recent memory, btw. I just don't agree with your views of the American soldier as a genecidal maniac)

You axed some questions (along with posting some graphic pictures). You waited for answers.

This, after questions were axed of you. I wait for answers as well.

My reason for even mentioning what US soldiers have done or war commanders have ordered is to simply put in your face that you are being as hypocritical as anyone else because you are making a moral judgment about who its ok to kill and why its ok to kill them.  Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians have been murdered in this conflict, some at the hands of other Iraqis, contractors and the US military.  This not wanting to question the actions of individuals because they have been hoisted on a pedestal is crap and I think you know it.  Besides, I didnt ask anyone to sign a contract and fly off to Iraq and I dont appreciate it because its dumb and I am certain that MANY of the young men and women who signed up did so for economic reasons and are being used like... well fill in the blank.

I am not making any judgement about it being okay to kill anyone. You made the judgement that it is worse to murder a person out of hate (presumably racially based hate) than it is to murder based on a different motive.

You are the one willing to make  the moral relativist call.

Very good point.

[NotNow]

I have watched "Fog of War". 

I would recommend personal experience if you really want to know how civilian casualties occur, both innocent and not.  Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Korea were military actions in support of allied governments, as was the declaration of war against Germany in 1941.  Whether the "threat" to America is tomorrow or in years is subjective and should be discussed in another thread.  I am not choosing which deaths are appropriate, my government is.  When my government places fighting men in combat against another armed power, I recognize that the lives of those Americans are paramount, and that they will use the appropriate amount of force to complete their objective.  Your ignorance is in understanding that the application of that force is never an exact science, and an infinite number of variables will always exist.  I don't really care how you "see" things, this country and others will continue to use force when required or desired, and that force will continue to be inexact in its application.  Those two facts are irrefutable.

You keep saying that I am ignorant in understanding the application of force, well I have my own experience with this and understand it as much as any other 6531 in the USMC would understand it.

I agree, those two facts are irrefutable but it does not mean that I will sit idly and silently by as they happen. 

Allright, if we agree that those two facts will stand, how do you propose to stop any deaths from occurring?