Schools in Springfield

[uptowngirl]

Ok. Anyone with children in any of these schools, or who had toured any of these schools would understand.

During my tour of Brentwood I saw no less than sixteen children coming in with parents late (it was 9:45 in the morning!) asking for excuses (you get your bennies cut if your kids aren't in school on time on a regular basis). They were all habitual in their practices as the admin there lectured all of them. I get newsletters basically begging parents to not drop their kids off at 7AM in the morning, and to pick them up on time. Even though FL offers free Pre-K 4 half of my daughters class (Andrew Robinson) did not know even their ABC's when they started school!

I do not blame any of these schools for that. The teachers and curriculum  are great, but the  laziness effort made by a lot of the parents is pitiful. You need to do more than go on line and look at a school grade to determine the right program/school for your child. Keep in mind a lot of these schools also have a magnent and parents too lazy to even try normal classes. They get one grade. If someone looking at our schools is not interested enough in finding out about each one, then we do not need them attending anyway-we have enough of that kind of attendance now.

FSU I have nothing against you, other than the black and white outlook on life in general that you seem to have. I think it is awesome that some of the neighbors would like to have a Springfield Charter School, I support them fully- I just wish they would give our existing schools a chance and expend some of that energy on them. The lesson Springfield has not learned: Together we succeed, divided we all fail.

[sheclown]

Part of the reason that the school systems are in such rough shape is that many students and parents who could have elevated the public schools were pulled out into private schools.  In Virginia, where I taught for years, very few students attended private schools and the local neighborhood public schools were excellent. (The parents made sure of it).

[strider]

The lesson Springfield has not learned: Together we succeed, divided we all fail.

This is an excellent quote and one that applies to pretty much everything in Springfield: schools, businesses, rentals and most importantly, people.

[fsu813]

Ok. Anyone with children in any of these schools, or who had toured any of these schools would understand.

During my tour of Brentwood I saw no less than sixteen children coming in with parents late (it was 9:45 in the morning!) asking for excuses (you get your bennies cut if your kids aren't in school on time on a regular basis). They were all habitual in their practices as the admin there lectured all of them. I get newsletters basically begging parents to not drop their kids off at 7AM in the morning, and to pick them up on time. Even though FL offers free Pre-K 4 half of my daughters class (Andrew Robinson) did not know even their ABC's when they started school!

I do not blame any of these schools for that. The teachers and curriculum  are great, but the  laziness effort made by a lot of the parents is pitiful. You need to do more than go on line and look at a school grade to determine the right program/school for your child. Keep in mind a lot of these schools also have a magnent and parents too lazy to even try normal classes. They get one grade. If someone looking at our schools is not interested enough in finding out about each one, then we do not need them attending anyway-we have enough of that kind of attendance now.

FSU I have nothing against you, other than the black and white outlook on life in general that you seem to have. I think it is awesome that some of the neighbors would like to have a Springfield Charter School, I support them fully- I just wish they would give our existing schools a chance and expend some of that energy on them. The lesson Springfield has not learned: Together we succeed, divided we all fail.

Not sure what makes you think i have that outlook, but besides that I fully agree with you.

[Miss Fixit]

Even though FL offers free Pre-K 4 half of my daughters class (Andrew Robinson) did not know even their ABC's when they started school!

Half of the kids in my son's kindergarten class at Hendricks Avenue Elementary in San Marco (an A school for many years) did not know their ABCs at the beginning of the year.  All of them (whether they are high or low income with involved parents or not) are reading now.  I'm curious about how the Andrew Robinson kids are doing at this point in the school year.

My impression of the Springfield neighborhood schools (neighborhood, not magnets) is not positive.  However, I don't think that's because of kids going to private schools - doubt that's the case for many Springfield kids, at least not until the past couple of years.

[Dan B]

We have been at Tolbert (W 13th St) for three years, and Pine Forest for one year, and have loved both of them. I think school will be as good or bad as you want it to be. Tolbert has had some drama, but all in all we love the ACTUAL diversity of the school (turns out, there is more than just black and white) and have been happy with the results come FCAT time. Our eldest is a good student, and we feel Tolbert has encouraged achievement.

[uptowngirl]

Even though FL offers free Pre-K 4 half of my daughters class (Andrew Robinson) did not know even their ABC's when they started school!

My impression of the Springfield neighborhood schools (neighborhood, not magnets) is not positive.  However, I don't think that's because of kids going to private schools - doubt that's the case for many Springfield kids, at least not until the past couple of years.

Why is your impression not positive? To be honest, I am not sure we have "non-magnent schools" in the neighborhood. They are all a combination of both (except the troubled childrens school on Hubbard). When I speak of parental involvement, I am speaking of parents that make the smallest effort, the tinest effort. Now, don't get me wrong this is not about income levels or race- there are these parents and their unfortunate children everywhere. I am sure we can find them smattered across every private school in every neighborhood. The issue in the urban core is you have a concentration. With eighteen children in a classroom, and fourteen needing to catch up on just ABC's and then pass those FCATs, well there is a lot of stress on one teacher. Especially when maybe nine of those children never make it to school on time or show up sporadically, have emotional and/or physical issues, and at best sporadic support at home. Personally I do not agree with grading a school, teacher, or student based on a test such as FCAT. I also believe benefit restrictions based on school attendance should be applied to FL State Free Pre-K attendance also. Places like the Bridge are also a salvation for these kids. After school care aside, they offer homework time and help, reading and math programs, and evening meals for some that would not get any dinner. The Bridge seems to act as a defacto family for many. We should all support places such as this!

Some type of parental involvement is KEY in being successful at any school. Children can attend the worst school, but with care and work on their parents part, be extremely successful. At some point in our lives some decided school and teachers should be the end all solution to learning AND parenting.

[Livein32206]

Some type of parental involvement is KEY in being successful at any school. Children can attend the worst school, but with care and work on their parents part, be extremely successful. At some point in our lives some decided school and teachers should be the end all solution to learning AND parenting.

Parental involvement is absolutely a must and it's sorely lacking in a major way. There's virtually no parental accountability anymore, and the school system is taking the direction that the only people held accountable are those who work in the classroom, and they're only a portion of the educational experience.

For the low income families, there's head start and any Title One school, there's pre-k. All of which help children prepare for school. Even with those programs, without parental involvement, the child still lacks a large portion of what's needed to suceed. The education is there, yet so many fail to take advantage of it, including parents.

[Miss Fixit]

Some type of parental involvement is KEY in being successful at any school. Children can attend the worst school, but with care and work on their parents part, be extremely successful. 

My negative impression of Springfield neighborhood schools (again, not including Lavilla and Stanton or Kirby Smith in this category) is based on personal tours, conversations with parents of children and teachers in those schools, and posts like yours.  I don't disagree with anything in your post, especially your comments about parental involvement - it is key.  One reason almost ALL of the kids (even the ones whose parents aren't involved) at schools like Hendricks are successful is because so many parents are involved at such a high level - there are dozens of parents at Hendricks assisting teachers and planning extracurricular programs every day of the week.  The PTA has even created programs designed to provide assistance to children who need it, whether financial or otherwise.  Unfortunately, because of the problems you outline, many of the Springfield parents who are most likely to be involved in their children's schools will choose to send their children to magnet schools outside of the neighborhood.  I don't know how you break that cycle - hopefully schools like Brentwood, R.V. Daniels and Susie Tolbert will continue to improve.   Meanwhile, we need to offer more assistance to the children of those parents who are unable to provide it. 

[Cliffs_Daughter]

FWIW, sticking to the topic, I do not live in Springfield - BUT, my #1 magnet choice on my son's app is for Ford.

And since I work in Springfield it would be really convenient.
My point is that I've seen the program at that school, and it is WAY better IMHO than our neighborhood school.

[strider]

Just some observations:

Historically, private schools have always been intended to segregate one "group" from another.  Also, if you look at the history of the creation of many of the private or church run schools, you will see that they were created after the public school's population radically changed. Again, in the name of a better education, yet history seems to indicate other reasons.

There currently does not seem to be much of a relationship between the racial makeup of a school and the actual grade the schools receive, however, social economic standing does seem to make a difference.

Northshore is a magnet school for those students with issues to begin with and it seems that since it was converted to that mission, it has been struggling more than before. Perhaps it is not being fairly compared to the other schools with a totally different mission?  I know the “management” has been changed this year so we will see if there is any improvement due to that type of change.

In a couple of other threads, a few studies have been posted that seem to indicate a very positive result from truly integrating various social economic groups together.  This, in my mind, would give credence to the concept that by pulling the more well off students out of the public schools and putting them into private schools, the public schools ultimately will be the worse off for it.

[Miss Fixit]

 This, in my mind, would give credence to the concept that by pulling the more well off students out of the public schools and putting them into private schools, the public schools ultimately will be the worse off for it.

I agree with you.  I don't think movement of children from public to private schools is the historic cause of problems in Springfield schools, because until recently very few Springfield families could afford private schools. 

Interesting: compare the comments here about affluent children in public schools to those in a couple of other threads that discuss the need for diversity in Springfield.

[strider]

Miss Fixit, actually, the movement in Springfield occured decades ago.  As the more affluent moved out of the urban core this left only the lower income groups here.   I would think that the idea of the magnet schools is in response to this issue and has helped most of the schools.

[Dan B]

The brain suck argument is not a new one. Where I have my problem is, forcing kids who are able to do the work into environments where there are kids who cant do the work doesnt seem to be helpful for either child.

As a magnet parent, now twice over, I dont understand why any parent WOULDN'T want their kid in a magnet program. Neighborhood children would get priority over non-neighborhood children in the local magnet programs, and in my mind NOT enrolling them is just pure laziness on the parents part. Its a simple matter of going to magnet-mania, and visiting the schools your interested in, then turning in a wishlist before a deadline, all over a two month period. No money required, and a very good chance to meet the teachers and administration as the schools you are interested in.

In a lot of cases, teachers and administration are advancing children who can perform from neighborhood classes to magnet classes, as a matter of procedure, rather than waiting for the parent to figure out they have a bright kid.

[Miss Fixit]

The brain suck argument is not a new one. Where I have my problem is, forcing kids who are able to do the work into environments where there are kids who cant do the work doesnt seem to be helpful for either child.

As a magnet parent, now twice over, I dont understand why any parent WOULDN'T want their kid in a magnet program. Neighborhood children would get priority over non-neighborhood children in the local magnet programs, and in my mind NOT enrolling them is just pure laziness on the parents part. Its a simple matter of going to magnet-mania, and visiting the schools your interested in, then turning in a wishlist before a deadline, all over a two month period. No money required, and a very good chance to meet the teachers and administration as the schools you are interested in.

In a lot of cases, teachers and administration are advancing children who can perform from neighborhood classes to magnet classes, as a matter of procedure, rather than waiting for the parent to figure out they have a bright kid.

Just to be clear:  my children attend public schools, including two magnets.  One problem with magnets is that they are not all equal and there is not enough room in the better magnets for all of the children who want to attend them.