Amendment 4

[simms3]

If amendment 4 passes, what are we going to do to ensure that investors of ANY type of project or just investing in buildings/land even spend their money here in FL?  If they have plans to re-adapt an urban block for a different use (an urban gentrification process), would they deem it worth it to buy the block parcels in plottage, hold this for up to a year, and wait on the public to vote to change little things like setbacks, land use, variances, and other things?  It will be very much more risky for investors, developers, or anyone to make any kinds of RE transactions and plans in the entire state.  It just seems too much the mess for me.  If I was a landowner in FL right now and thought amendment 4 would pass, I would consider getting out the state completely before it would be enacted.  I think it will drop land values considerably because nobody will be able to do anything with any land, so why invest?

[ChriswUfGator]

If amendment 4 passes, what are we going to do to ensure that investors of ANY type of project or just investing in buildings/land even spend their money here in FL?  If they have plans to re-adapt an urban block for a different use (an urban gentrification process), would they deem it worth it to buy the block parcels in plottage, hold this for up to a year, and wait on the public to vote to change little things like setbacks, land use, variances, and other things?  It will be very much more risky for investors, developers, or anyone to make any kinds of RE transactions and plans in the entire state.  It just seems too much the mess for me.  If I was a landowner in FL right now and thought amendment 4 would pass, I would consider getting out the state completely before it would be enacted.  I think it will drop land values considerably because nobody will be able to do anything with any land, so why invest?

I think developers will adapt. You'll see more purchase & sale contracts be written with contingencies for pud or comp plan amendment approval. This is actually already a very common practice now. I don't think much will change from that end, as long as the end user demand is there then there will be development. If the costs go up, then so be it. The cost to taxpayers of operating the way we have been is higher. 

[Kay]

Amendment 4 only affects Land Use changes--not setbacks or variances or zoning.  Currently Land Use changes are approved by City Council and signed off by the State.  Land Use changes are what change the Comp Plan.  Setbacks are handled by the Planning Dept.  Variances go to the Planning Commission.  Rezonings go to City Council as last stop.  None of these are part of Amendment 4.

If amendment 4 passes, what are we going to do to ensure that investors of ANY type of project or just investing in buildings/land even spend their money here in FL?  If they have plans to re-adapt an urban block for a different use (an urban gentrification process), would they deem it worth it to buy the block parcels in plottage, hold this for up to a year, and wait on the public to vote to change little things like setbacks, land use, variances, and other things?  It will be very much more risky for investors, developers, or anyone to make any kinds of RE transactions and plans in the entire state.  It just seems too much the mess for me.  If I was a landowner in FL right now and thought amendment 4 would pass, I would consider getting out the state completely before it would be enacted.  I think it will drop land values considerably because nobody will be able to do anything with any land, so why invest?

[Dog Walker]

Change little things like land use?  LITTLE?  Can't do anything with any land?

Can you read?  Do you know what a comprehensive land use plan is?

Those aren't even straw midget arguments, much less straw man arguments.  Please go do your homework before you post again.

[ChriswUfGator]

Amendment 4 only affects Land Use changes--not setbacks or variances or zoning.  Currently Land Use changes are approved by City Council and signed off by the State.  Land Use changes are what change the Comp Plan.  Setbacks are handled by the Planning Dept.  Variances go to the Planning Commission.  Rezonings go to City Council as last stop.  None of these are part of Amendment 4.

If amendment 4 passes, what are we going to do to ensure that investors of ANY type of project or just investing in buildings/land even spend their money here in FL?  If they have plans to re-adapt an urban block for a different use (an urban gentrification process), would they deem it worth it to buy the block parcels in plottage, hold this for up to a year, and wait on the public to vote to change little things like setbacks, land use, variances, and other things?  It will be very much more risky for investors, developers, or anyone to make any kinds of RE transactions and plans in the entire state.  It just seems too much the mess for me.  If I was a landowner in FL right now and thought amendment 4 would pass, I would consider getting out the state completely before it would be enacted.  I think it will drop land values considerably because nobody will be able to do anything with any land, so why invest?

You know, I sometimes forget that myself in these amendment 4 discussions.

The amendment 4 detractors have done such a good job misinforming the public that most people truly believe that when aunt Sally wants to put up a new mailbox, or a new gas station wants to open up, or a flock of migratory birds wants to land on a vacant lot,  it's going to require a voter referendum. That is deliberate misinformation, is not the case, but unfortunately I think a lot of people do believe that.

[ChriswUfGator]

Change little things like land use?  LITTLE?  Can't do anything with any land?

Can you read?  Do you know what a comprehensive land use plan is?

Those aren't even straw midget arguments, much less straw man arguments.  Please go do your homework before you post again.

I think Simms fell victim to the misinformation campaign I described above. A lot of people have been told that amendment 4 would require the voters to approve every tiny little thing related to land use and zoning, which simply isn't true. You have a lot of people that seem to think they'll need voter approval to build a shed. They were lied to.

[Brand New]

What is the difference between a change in land-use and rezoning?

[north miami]

Change little things like land use?  LITTLE?  Can't do anything with any land?

Can you read?  Do you know what a comprehensive land use plan is?

Those aren't even straw midget arguments, much less straw man arguments.  Please go do your homework before you post again.

I think Simms fell victim to the misinformation campaign I described above. A lot of people have been told that amendment 4 would require the voters to approve every tiny little thing related to land use and zoning, which simply isn't true. You have a lot of people that seem to think they'll need voter approval to build a shed. They were lied to.

Keep an eye on the Hometown site for continual updates and explanations on a tidal wave of mis-info.

It is appaerent most citizens are not well versed on growth management,issues in the field and their very own standing-by rule- in the process.

[tufsu1]

Do you know what a comprehensive land use plan is?

actually nobody does....because there is nothing in the comp. plan called this....there is the Future Land Use Element and the Future Land Use Plan.

this is one of many things about Amendment 4 that becomes confusing....some believe it coul lead to an interpretation of any change to land use (which could in fact mean zoning).

[tufsu1]

I can't speak on why the resolution is so strongly worded, but yes, it passed unanimously.

From what I know of St. Pete Beach, their entire economy has been stymied by their version of Hometown Democracy....and keep in mind it passed in 2006, before the economy tanked....when the general citizens saw the destructive force of the HD laws they had voted in, they changed course and repealed them....unfortunately that hasn't stopped the pro-HD folks from filing lawsuit after lawsuit. 

[ChriswUfGator]

Do you know what a comprehensive land use plan is?

actually nobody does....because there is nothing in the comp. plan called this....there is the Future Land Use Element and the Future Land Use Plan.

this is one of many things about Amendment 4 that becomes confusing....some believe it coul lead to an interpretation of any change to land use (which could in fact mean zoning).

Tufsu...

Am I reading this right? Are you denying that there is any such thing as a Comprehensive Land Use Plan?

As a quick example, then what would you call this;

http://www.ci.neptune-beach.fl.us/misc_pdfs/CompPlan06.pdf

Seriously? Is this a joke?

[tufsu1]

Well they had a good redevlopment plan that went before the voters....they approved it and then the City was sued by pro HD folks who were unhappy the voters said YES to something.

Nobody should think Amendment 4 is about stopping sprawl....it is about stopping all changes....or getting to NO....if that wasn't the case, the amendment would have been written to require referendum on all changes....instead it is just those recommended by the governmental body for approval

Trust me.,..I asked the author that question point blank 3 years ago

[tufsu1]

chris...I assure you there is nothing officially called a "Comprehensive Future Land Use Plan"....there is the comp plan, future land use element, and future land use map.

This is the point....some might think this would require voter approval for ANY change to the comp plan at all....which, for example, includes the capital improvements element (updated annually)

[ChriswUfGator]

Do you know what a comprehensive land use plan is?

actually nobody does....because there is nothing in the comp. plan called this....there is the Future Land Use Element and the Future Land Use Plan.

this is one of many things about Amendment 4 that becomes confusing....some believe it coul lead to an interpretation of any change to land use (which could in fact mean zoning).

And Tufsu, have you bothered to read the actual title of Amendment 4? The name of the amendment is:

Referenda required for adoption and amendment of local government comprehensive land use plans.

[tufsu1]

If you don't believe me, check Chapter 163 FS