Ladies of the nite and their bretheren

[CS Foltz]

Hay! I got it...............lets set up a confrontation between the two groups, sell tickets and do something about the deficit! Winners get to take over City Hall (since they aren't using it)and losers get banished to say Orlando and let them worry about it!

[tpot]

CS..............no question here...........my money is on the He Ho's................hands down..........no wait.......leave my hands outa this................

[urbanlibertarian]

If the State of Fla would allow a legal, clean and safe alternative most customers would prefer that to the illegal street hookers and not patronize them.  It's the black market aspects that cause the violence and public nuisance.

[Karl_Pilkington]

So Cindi.  If you can define Hampsterdam I promise Ill help you clean up the prostitutes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamsterdam

its from the show The Wire, where the popo set up a defacto legalized area where drugs and prostitution could happen.  The popo figured they couldn't stop it, so they made a deal, do your thing in Hamsterdam and we won't screw with you, doing this outside of this area you're screwed.

the SPR residents who live in this area call it Hampsterdam because JSO has basically taken the same type of attitude as the police did in the wire.  One huge difference, in the Wire the police moved everyone out, so the only people in this area were the drug dealers, pimps and ho's.  This new video just proves that JSO considers this part of SPR their Hamsterdam.

[cindi]

for the most part it is from 8th to 6th and from pearl to boulevard.  an easy way to tell, at 3am if the traffic is heavier than 3pm by almost double, all the cars have 1 male in them, they circle more than 3 times and you can identify the hookers and know if they are wearing the same thing as yesterday = you are probably in hampsterdam.  if you can shake down a shoplifter in the alley knowing he wont call the cops because he has outstanding warrants - you might be in hampsterdam.  if you can collect more than 5 used condoms from the sidewalk in front of your house on a daily basis - you might be in hampsterdam.  if you know what time the hehos take their break and allow the dealers to operate (fyi, they are almost never together) you might be in hampsterdam.  if you thought the "lady" in the jso video was actually a female - you've never been to hampsterdam

[tpot]

I don't live in hampsterdam but I believe the hub of activity is at the SHell Station on 8th and would extend at least a block in all directions......................Hampsterdamnites please advise...............

[cindi]

tpot you are correct.   stephen, trust me, it will take more than a few weeks.  we went steady at it for over a year.  chasing hookers, homeless, gomers etc.  we were relentless, every weekend, every night that we didn't actually have to get up and go to our day job the next day - we have taken pictures,been maced, one of us was assulted, collected tag numbers, actually chased the gomers in their cars, lit them up with the god light, called jso, called the guardian angels, called jso, called jso, met with jso, done ride alongs, until someone can find a way to exterminate the gomers - the hookers will not leave.  we have even made "agreements" with them to move over to the other side of boulevard which worked for awhile - in return we had to provide "protection" to a couple of them as they were getting their asses kicked by some unhappy customers. frustrated is the word of the day.  we also befriended one of the quieter ones and her "protector" to work our corner instead of the loud. screaching ones.  at wits end.  help is always welcome

[samiam]

stephendare
Do you think the installation of video camera could deter the illegal activity along 8Th street.

[cindi]

stephendare
Do you think the installation of video camera could deter the illegal activity along 8Th street.

we have live video feed it doesn't deter crap.  it's actually very frustrating to watch the cops drive by them flagging down their next gomer and doing nothing. 

[Ocklawaha]

Cindi, Stephen, et al etc... I would submit to all of you that we are going about this whole problem from the wrong direction. Chase it away, beat the shit out of it, flood lite it, air horn it, water cannon it, taze it, mace it, photograph it, harass it, WHATEVER... All you are doing is moving the problem around from one street to the next. In the process your own exposure to the situation causes undo stress and fatigue, perhaps even major depression. Violence can lead to guilt, sleepless nights, suicide, or imprisonment. Not a single one of these "solutions" has a lasting effect, except to deepen the gulf of understanding or empathy, and to potentially create some very dangerous enemy's.

Some 98.7% of all females in prostitution and probably a like percentage for males in prostitution, are survivors of horrid early childhood, childhood, teen, sexual abuse. As rape is never about love, and always about power or control, imagine the demented mind of one who would molest his or her own child, or that of a friend or loved one. So on top of rape, control and violence, you add cruelty, torture, maiming, and every other type of pain physical or mental known to man. The death of innocence and the loss of trust in any authority, plays right into the perpetrator's hands. One single policeman, real or fabricated, doubtlessly in high demand among the depraved, who is willing to talk or make a video, or in some other way "back up" the perpetrator's threats, can shut down city, state, church, law enforcement, social services as avenues of escape for a lifetime. It doesn't take much to convince a terrorized 10 year old that if they tell the dirty little secret to anyone, mommy and daddy will die.  Want to REALLY seal their lips or block them from ever trying to get away? Simply torture the child's pet, or kill it in the child's presence. From that point on the victim is helpless and without hope, the mind kicking into survival mode is willing to overlook all sins. Toss in a few pills or a few grams of crack or smack, and the abuser literally "owns" the child for life. Another child enters the sex trade, or the flesh trafficking market.

The only way to effectively fight it is by making a long term commitment to create hope, support, and avenues of safe escape without religious or society restrictions. The week spent holding a young head above the toilet while the withdrawal is wracking the body. The weeks of nights of cold sweats, chills, and the feeling of 10,000 ants crawling just under ones skin. The nail biting (chewing the nails OFF completely), hair pulling, cursing, hate, rage, anger, and inner explosions all have to be handled with one method, extreme, patient LOVE. *see note below

Stephen, do we still have access to the film project short of the young girl who finds her mother at the bar? If so can you post it here??  

If y'all want to really get after the problem, we can start by plugging in a local service group with one of the national outreach missions to street prostitutes, call girls and guys. I would suggest we work up our own localized version, and if we posted a call for help in this city, I bet 100 professional's and lay volunteers would answer it immediately. If there is one thing this city has shown in the past, it is our ability to forget almost anything and join hands in compassion... and this needs our compassion.

Check out:

http://www.hookersforjesus.net/  Which uses ex-hookers and sex workers to reach out on the streets.

http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/services.html  Dignity House, a long term live in center.

http://www.prostitutionrecovery.org/  A complete Foundation dedicated to recovery.

http://www.hollywoodfl.org/city_clerks/pdf/0407_22.pdf  City of Hollywood Fl. Funding Help Center.

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/NewsEventServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=4153
                                               A national center of missing chidren education program offered in Georgia

http://www.justicecoalition.org/newspaper/September2007/VAsept~11.pdf  Justice Coalition Victim Advocate


OCKLAWAHA
*note: Not that I've ever done any of this withdrawal stuff, but I've read the books, seen the videos, etc...

[cindi]

WHATEVER... All you are doing is moving the problem around from one street to the next. In the process your own exposure to the situation causes undo stress and fatigue, perhaps even major depression. Violence can lead to guilt, sleepless nights, suicide, or imprisonment. Not a single one of these "solutions" has a lasting effect, except to deepen the gulf of understanding or empathy, and to potentially create some very dangerous enemy's

it doesn't cause me stress, and i actually could care less if they got nasty with every gomer in town 24/7 if they would do it in their own house/cardboard box or whatever rock they slime from under - their sex howling does keep me awake, no depression - as for the violence leading to guilt etc - not even close.  and no, i have absolutely no empathy, sympathy, compassion or any other bleeding heart feelings for anyone that acts like an animal outside my window, not only do i not want to know "their story" i just plain don't care about it. i have spent more than one day in the healthcare field  so i am well aware of the statistics, lots of people get dealt a crappy hand in life, not all become hehos bumping nasties on peoples lawns.  you are right - there are huge flaws in our social services systems and yes, some people are just "broken", but seriously, when should people have to start taking responsibility for their own actions?  news flash, at some point, it is about choices.  this city has more social services program for just about everything from dependency issues to the inablity to wipe their own butts. 
as for the moving it to another street - hell yea, i could be so lucky - i don't think the people that ran them to our area lost any sleep about giving someone else their nasty little problem

[AlexS]

Im serious about the offer to help get some change over there.  Will you help us out if we do it?

It will take a couple of weeks, Maybe a month even, but its doable if there is some consensus over there among the residents that they want it stopped.

If you can solve the problem (or help with it) you would be our hero. We have tried, JSO has tried and for several years now still unresolved.

[Ocklawaha]

Wow Cindi, you seem to pride yourself on being "battle hardened" maybe through the health care field. Maybe you didn't notice, but my post wasn't about you, I simply addressed it to You, Stephen and everyone else as the two of you seem to have taken the lead in this thread... call it courtesy.

Having had 2 call girls once living with me in California, I understand their suffering and don't consider myself a bleeding heart for rain forests, whales, or lost puppies. When it comes to human life, and young people in particular, I'm sorry Cindi, I hope I'm never that empty.

PEACE, LOVE and HARMONY

OCKLAWAHA

[cindi]

Wow Cindi, you seem to pride yourself on being "battle hardened" maybe through the health care field. Maybe you didn't notice, but my post wasn't about you, I simply addressed it to You, Stephen and everyone else as the two of you seem to have taken the lead in this thread... call it courtesy.

Having had 2 call girls once living with me in California, I understand their suffering and don't consider myself a bleeding heart for rain forests, whales, or lost puppies. When it comes to human life, and young people in particular, I'm sorry Cindi, I hope I'm never that empty.

PEACE, LOVE and HARMONY

OCKLAWAHA

not even close to "battle hardened", again, life is about choices and i choose not to care about people trying to suck the life out of me because of their poor choices.
don't feel sorry for me, since you don't know me from adam's porch cat, you have no idea if i am empty or not and i am actually a huge bleeding heart for lost puppies so spare the psycho babble.

[Springfielder]

If someone feels that hookers are okay, then why not extend the invitation for them to come work outside of your home, then everyone would be happy. You'd have the hookers under your compassionate care, Springfield would be rid of that problem and the hookers would be where they're wanted....because they're not welcomed here.

Personally, I'm all about compassion for the whales, lost puppies, rain forests, as they didn't make the choice to be mistreated....hookers and such made a conscience choice...major difference.