Is Springfield Ready for a Car Wash?

[ChriswUfGator]

And presuming they are would make anyone look foolish.

More or less foolish than writing the President of the United States complaining about having too many halfway houses in Springfield? Maybe you can put it on a 1-10 scale? I mean, I'm just trying to get a guage on the exact level of foolishness we're talking about here...

[CS Foltz]

Aunt Eulabelle's letter to the Prez...........classic SPAR if there ever was stephendare!

[ChriswUfGator]

Aunt Eulabelle's letter to the Prez...........classic SPAR if there ever was stephendare!

Oh it SO is...

I reproduced it in its entirety in one of these threads on here today. There are so many topics going at once it's hard to keep them all straight. But boy is that thing ever a SPAR classic...

Here, it's at the bottom of this post:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,7174.msg122972.html#msg122972

[fsu813]

After doing some research, I will be supporting a denial of the car wash as well.

I was always borderline, giving the business opprotunity the benefit of the doubt. Didn't feel strongly either way. But, again, doing my homework leads me to believe the chances of it being a negative are more than it being a positive. That's my bottom line.

- Planning & zoning and HPC will almost certainly recommend denial, despite what SPAR's opinion is.

- After receiveing an excemption, the business could open as is....without a COA or any changes, according to HPC.

- Unfortunatley, it's doubtful the owner has the funds to pay for the nice enhancements that Content Design put together.

- The math has been done, an unrealistic number of cars per hour would be needed for it be be profitable. Which again opens the door for what does make money, unfortunately, in the 'hood: alcohol, cigs, singles, etc.

- a number of auto businesses have left the neighborhood in the past decade, doesn't make sense to start letting them back in, especially with one with so many questions.

- The Springfield 2007 action plan & Urban Core Vision Plan 2009 don't support this.

- Though some think a precedent wouldn't be set, I do. These things, as we know, are decided by people. People are often swayed. If Tom comes by 6 months later, has a hearing, and in it says "xyz auto business was just approved six months ago, so why can't mine?" there's a greater chance of it being approved.

- there's another concern of a personal nature that's not appropriate to discuss, as I don't like throwing people under the bus.

This isn't meant to cause debate, just don't want anyone to be surprised when I stand to support denial as well.

*i'll be the handsome guy, for those who don't know me

[ChriswUfGator]

Hey, as long as you show up at the planning meeting and say your peace in public, and where the property owner will have a proper chance to respond and address whatever concerns you present (you know...this little thing some weirdos like to call "due process"), then you're welcome to have whatever the hell view you feel like. So's everyone else. That's how it's supposed to work.

Long as it's all above-board and the guy gets a fair shake at his hearing, then it doesn't personally matter to me one way or the other whether there's a carwash or not. It's just the unfair fight that bugged me.

[thelakelander]

Good post Chris.  I feel the same way.

[fsu813]

a fair shake is all that can be expected.

[sheclown]

a fair shake is all that can be expected.

hardly, perhaps the word is hoped for.

[strider]

- Planning & zoning and HPC will almost certainly recommend denial, despite what SPAR's opinion is.

Planning and Zoning, I won’t go into the why I feel this way, but it seems often like a few involved with the department and the commission side with SPAR Council pretty consistently, so, unless they start evaluating this project on the current merits, you are probably right.  HPC has no business weighing in on this as they do not address zoning issues so any comments on the historically compatibility of the structure itself just muddies the waters without just cause.

- After receiveing an excemption, the business could open as is....without a COA or any changes, according to HPC.

Yep.  And 3rd and main could be turned into section 8 housing tomorrow. Fear is just that, fear and making decisions based on that fear is not always the wise course of action.

- Unfortunatley, it's doubtful the owner has the funds to pay for the nice enhancements that Content Design put together.

If so, perhaps SPAR Façade program could help?  And, as I suspect this man wants a nice place or he would not have worked with Content Design at all, if he doesn’t do everything today, he will as he can tomorrow.

- The math has been done, an unrealistic number of cars per hour would be needed for it be be profitable. Which again opens the door for what does make money, unfortunately, in the 'hood: alcohol, cigs, singles, etc.

And this has been determined by whom?  You? SPAR Council’s marketing person? As to worrying about the sale of alcohol, cigs etc, the very same thing could be said about the Uptown Market. Fear leads to this … well, fear …not fact.

- a number of auto businesses have left the neighborhood in the past decade, doesn't make sense to start letting them back in, especially with one with so many questions.

And yet, this community has indeed let several “back in”.  More to the point, it was the row of used car lots that were of real concern because they use large empty lots up close to the street and smaller buildings back away from the street and so do not conform to what a historic commercial district once looked like.  As we live in the 21st century, and cars aren’t going anywhere soon, various smaller auto uses make sense and are needed.

- The Springfield 2007 action plan & Urban Core Vision Plan 2009 don't support this.

Can you please quote what part of the plan(s) says this? And tell us again who wrote the 2007 Springfield action plan and why it is valid in today’s vastly different economic landscape?

- Though some think a precedent wouldn't be set, I do. These things, as we know, are decided by people. People are often swayed. If Tom comes by 6 months later, has a hearing, and in it says "xyz auto business was just approved six months ago, so why can't mine?" there's a greater chance of it being approved.

Perhaps and perhaps not. Perhaps that plan is a good one and the community needs that new business.  Perhaps that is the purpose of having these hearing so each plan can be evaluated on it’s own merits.

Obviously, I feel the car wash is a valid and useful business to have on Main Street.  I do not feel it hurts the future walkabilty of Main as cars are and will be a huge part of the life in Springfield and business that carter to cars will always be needed here.  To be successful as a commercial district, it is obvious that much of the clientele for Main Street businesses will have to come from outlaying areas and so this car wash is another reason for them to come here.  Now all we need are more businesses in those empty buildings for them to shop at.

[jason_contentdg]

Ok, so one thing that keeps being mentioned is "What if this get approved and the owner does not take any of the design consideration into account, and opens up the business as is, without improvements."

It was always under my impression that Silas would have to go for a COA from HPC, but as FSU813 states, and I've spoken today with HPC, that if Silas does not touch the building, then it can look exactly as it does today, and only site improvements would have to get a COA.

After chatting with HPC I spoke with the planning department, and asked if they were able to approve with conditions, relaying some's concern about the owner not making the improvements based on our design.  I was told that they could, if the project is approved on Thursday, approve with the conditions that the site and the building match what is presented on the meeting, binding the owner to make those changes before opening.

As it stands now, the planning department's recommendation is to deny, with this purely based off older submitted information and none of the items that we have prepared for Thursday's meeting.

[Dan B]

Thanks Jason. I was under the impression it could be binding as well, but then I was told the same bit of info that FSU813 got. Its good to know that is the case.

[thelakelander]

good info indeed.

[Johnny]

You know, many here are blaming SPAR. However, I look at Jacksonville as a whole and think, our city officials are pretty incompetent. Making this such an issue b/c some organization (SPAR) was against it at first (whether they are still or not, remains to be seen), is laughable. Leave it to COJ and Springfield may end up a parking lot to house vehicles next to the large parking lot of downtown, like an amusement park of parking lots. I think the theory is all the cars can ride on magnificent roads leading out of town, then park in the large parking lots to take the skyway on a 10 minute round trip, only to come back to a parking ticket and a panhandler. Jacksonville is to be the Detroit of the south!

[Johnny]

wow, that was pretty cynical wasn't it? lol

[thelakelander]

Detroit has a more vibrant downtown and they're getting light rail now.  Perhaps we're becoming the Toledo or Flint of the South.