Notes from SPAR public meeting - 10.29

[Dan B]

Chris, lets not forget the Symphony lots at 4th and Silver, which were bought at a huge sum as well.

[ChriswUfGator]

Chris, all of the vacant lots in Springfield don't belong to SRG..

Not all of them, that's true.

But a pretty big chunk of properties that COJ code-enforcement used to just board up and take a hands-off approach with, since they knew they were historical, 'somehow' seemed to start getting demolished all of a sudden, only for the vacant lots to wind up on SRG's roster. After reading Louise's own e-mails, where she's whining about how she isn't allowed to knock them down fast enough, I certainly have a strong suspicion of why.

Check out the property appraiser's records, they own hundreds, almost all of them vacant thanks in no small part to SPAR's non-efforts when it comes to preservation. Awhile back someone did the math on this, but IIRC it was sheclown, so I'm sure she'll just be automatically dismissed and devalidated like usual. But the final figure was that SRG's vacant lots by themselves amount to something like 8% of the ENTIRE SPRINGFIELD PLAT.

And obviously there are more vacant lots that SRG doesn't own, so no, I really don't think the 1/3 figure I threw out there is probably very far off at all.

[Dan B]

Tell you what Chris. Since there is such a clear and obvious pattern, can you give a few addresses as an example?

[ChriswUfGator]

Sheclown has the specifics on this one. She already did this homework, so I'll let her chime in.

[Dan B]

Good. I await the evidence.

[chris farley]

You know by saying that a round table meeting in 2000 shows that SRG had a relationship, is actually accusing Phil and Joe.
I just know when doing the fountain, I thought we thought that we may not mke the money needed.  We were selling bricks like crazy.  Then out of the blue Mack walked into the club and wrote us a check for $10,000.  I was gobsmacked it was his own initiative we did not ask for it.  We certainly were not involved in aiding the purchase of lots!
I believe the reason the police fund and other such funds went through SPAR was to allow them to be tax deductible and so encourage people to donate.  There was nothing untoward.  I will tell you I did not donate since I was fearful of liability, but need not have been actually.  I also was not a member of SPAR for a while but now I am really trying to fund raise.  The organization is nessessary and what is happening right now is unnessessary and as was said in the McCarthy hearings " where is the sense of decency" (I know I have paraphrased this).  The name calling is terrible, LOLAS is funny actually, but if acronyms (correct word?, I am not too bright) were used for other sexes, backgrounds or race the world would fall apart.

[ChriswUfGator]

Yes FSu they were available.  Many on which taxes were owed were listed downtown, that is how I found out that I had just lost out on the lot I wanted next to a house I had bought.  As soon as I came into the neighborhood in 2000 I went to meetings of all the organizations, I do not remember any such discussions on the buying of lots and I may just go look at the minutes, they were kept when the organizations merged. It would take a lot of digging though and I know what the answer would be. I did finish up as secretary to HScc when Adam became president and strider vice president so I do know a little about the subjecy) Tom Purdie ( I know he is Mack's cousin) did his buying quietly, for which I do not blame him, the prices would have risen quickly. He did buy some houses also but then stayed away from them, the two green ones - I think at 5th and Pearl - were his at one time - he asked me if I wanted them.  I followed his tracks a little.
Incidently in 2000 lots were going for a song, one went to a friend of mine for $500, a house with a huge lot for $4500, anyone doing research and acting quietly could easily get lots, without  having to "payout" as is being alledged) people did not want them and is some cases gave them away or donated themto the non-profits.  After the new houses started being built and sold, then SRG bought land at fair market value, ie what people asked, they even offered $80,000 for one on Market.   

Yeah there were deals to be had, but I'm not sure if the quantity and frequency that you'd happen to stumble across a vacant lot for $500 would be anywhere close to what's needed to feed a large development business. With all that said SRG was a pretty well funded group, I'm sure they could have bought whatever properties they wanted. What I think reeks here isn't them 'stealing' land, I don't necessarily think they did that.

But did they butter up Louise in order to make it easier for them to demolish places? Well, read the e-mails, and you be the judge. I'll let Louise speak for herself on that one. The answer is pretty clear.

[ChriswUfGator]

You know by saying that a round table meeting in 2000 shows that SRG had a relationship, is actually accusing Phil and Joe.
I just know when doing the fountain, I thought we thought that we may not mke the money needed.  We were selling bricks like crazy.  Then out of the blue Mack walked into the club and wrote us a check for $10,000.  I was gobsmacked it was his own initiative we did not ask for it.  We certainly were not involved in aiding the purchase of lots!
I believe the reason the police fund and other such funds went through SPAR was to allow them to be tax deductible and so encourage people to donate.  There was nothing untoward.  I will tell you I did not donate since I was fearful of liability, but need not have been actually.  I also was not a member of SPAR for a while but now I am really trying to fund raise.  The organization is nessessary and what is happening right now is unnessessary and as was said in the McCarthy hearings " where is the sense of decency" (I know I have paraphrased this).  The name calling is terrible, LOLAS if funny actually, but if acronyms were used for other sexes, backgrounds or race the world would fall apart.

I don't really think SPAR was involved in helping get the SRG properties. But I DEFINITELY think SPAR was HIGHLY involved in making it a whole lot easier to knock stuff down, which greatly benefitted SRG. That's the part I think reeks about all this. Louise's letter about how she has "always" valued historic preservation is just B.S., contrast that to her emails where she's kvetching to COJ about not being able to knock 'em down fast enough.

[Dan B]

in the 2000 time frame, when the vast majority of the lots were bought, Louise wasnt the President or ED.

[Dan B]

What I still dont understand, Chris, you have shown a clear disdain for Springfield in general. Why do you care so much? You dont live here, you dont own here, you dont seem to have any interests here what so ever, and make a point of telling those of us who DO, that we are dumb for doing so.

So what am I missing?

[ChriswUfGator]

What I still dont understand, Chris, you have shown a clear disdain for Springfield in general. Why do you care so much? You dont live here, you dont own here, you dont seem to have any interests here what so ever, and make a point of telling those of us who DO, that we are dumb for doing so.

So what am I missing?

I have never said anyone is dumb for living in Springfield. I saw, and continue to see, its potential and I did put my money where my mouth is. Quit making useless ad hominem attacks, none of that is the point. The point here is SPAR, not Springfield. The two aren't one and the same.

[chris farley]

I know this is not the subject matter of this thread, but some of the people involved are MetroJax in effect - who is on the board.  Is the entire board thinking the same way as most of these posts?

[Dan B]

What I still dont understand, Chris, you have shown a clear disdain for Springfield in general. Why do you care so much? You dont live here, you dont own here, you dont seem to have any interests here what so ever, and make a point of telling those of us who DO, that we are dumb for doing so.

So what am I missing?

I have never said anyone is dumb for living in Springfield. I saw, and continue to see, its potential and I did put my money where my mouth is. Quit making useless ad hominem attacks, none of that is the point. The point here is SPAR, not Springfield. The two aren't one and the same.

You have made many a snide remark about Springfield in general. This is not ad hominem, this is fact.

[ChriswUfGator]

in the 2000 time frame, when the vast majority of the lots were bought, Louise wasnt the President or ED.

Read my post before this one, I think you may not have had a chance to read it since you were probably still writing your post when I posted.

I don't think SPAR helped get SRG the lots. But I do think, based on Louise's own emails, that she was running around behind the scenes to make it easier to knock places down, which directly benefits SRG and other developers.

For chrissakes' you've got the ED of the Historical Preservation organization running around kvetching to COJ that having to do a structural survey to determine whether a place can be saved before knocking it down is somehow terrible and a waste of time, because it slows down the demolition process. WTF, man? Attack me all you want, I didn't write that e-mail. I never WOULD have written that e-mail, and I don't even work for a historic preservation group!

[fsu813]

Chris. You don't know what you're talking about. Plain & simple. And you search, reach, and stretch for anything to latch on to.

As Dan stated, please present....anything...ANYTHING....besides your "hunch" (ha).

You have nothing, you will always have nothing, besides your hunch.

The hunch of someone who doesn't live here, doesn't partcipate in the organization in question, and generally doesn't know what is going on here.

But he does have a hunch!*

(* based on an email with no context or backstory)