City plans big party

[buckethead]

When is the last time SR 16, San Marco Avenue or King Street turned a profit?  Why hold rail to a higher standard?

I have seen this stated before. It would be interesting to know the actual subsidized cost per ride/mile of rail vs roadway. I'm sure someone has done such a comparison here before, but I would not know where to look.

[Jason]

Jaguars to promote 450th

President: Partnership with city to help make event 'as successful as it could be'
Posted: July 23, 2012 - 11:24pm

By PETER GUINTA
peter.guinta@staugustine.com
Jaguars to promote 450th
PETER GUINTA
July 24, 2012 10:42 AM EDT


President: Partnership with city to help make event ‘as successful as it could be’

The Jacksonville Jaguars plan to jump on the ever-expanding celebration that will be St. Augustine’s 450th Commemoration in 2015 by becoming an official ally of the city, team President Mark Lamping said Monday.

“We have many fans in this area,” Lamping said. “We are going to use our promotional tools to make (the event) as successful as it could be.”

Lamping said the team hasn’t finalized what its support programs are going to look like, but added he got “fired up” after hearing about the project from city officials.

“We want to play a small role in one of the most significant events happening in St. Augustine for many years,” he said.

Read the rest at St. Augustine.com
http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2012-07-23/jaguars-promote-450th

[Ocklawaha]

When is the last time SR 16, San Marco Avenue or King Street turned a profit?  Why hold rail to a higher standard?

I have seen this stated before. It would be interesting to know the actual subsidized cost per ride/mile of rail vs roadway. I'm sure someone has done such a comparison here before, but I would not know where to look.

I'm your huckleberry!

CAPITAL CONSTRUCTION COSTS - PER MILE:

$2,388,108.27   Rural 2 lane highway with 5' paved shoulders
$4,793,671.06 urban 2 lane urban arterial highway with 4' bike lanes
$8,874,542.46 urban 4 lane FREEway with barrier wall and 10' shoulders.

Costs are for an unobstructed flat roadways without real estate. Unless it is tolled, it has zero cost recovery from users. The highway's will have to be resurfaced every 10 years.

$432,346.91 milling and resurfacing 2 lane rural highway with 5' shoulders
$420,987.25 milling and resurfacing 2 lane urban arterial with 4' bike lanes
$845,824.25 milling and resurfacing 4 lane FREEway

SOURCE: FDOT generic cost per mile models

$3,000,000 single track railroad with bi-directional capacity of 2.5 highway lanes.

Requires resurfacing every 50-100 years at a cost of around $248,485

SOURCE: MODOT

Corridor passenger rail on existing trackage:

Amtrak 'VERMONTER' = $17.76 per train-mile
Amtrak 'DOWNEASTER' = $27.70 per train-mile

SOURCE: AMTRAK

High Speed Passenger Train on existing railroad = .10 cents per passenger mile

SOURCE: CALIFORNIA WATCH


COST OF AUTOMOBILE OPERATION ON EXISTING ROADWAY

Small sedan........41.5 cents per mile   $6,758 yr
Mid-sized sedan...57.3 cents per mile   $8,588 yr
Large sedan........73.2 cents per mile   $10,982 yr
4WD SUV...........75.9 cents per mile   $11,382 yr
Minivan..............63.3 cents per mile   $9,489 yr

SOURCE: AAA

Passenger rail will have cost recovery through the farebox, except for taxi's, automobiles won't.

[fsujax]

A commuter rail demostration project from Jax to St Augustine is needed.

[Jason]

YES!!  That would be fantastic.

Sadly, the average St. Augustinian sentiment towards rail is no different than in Jax, if not worse.  People around here just don't get it.

[Ocklawaha]

St Augustine citizens don't get it because they haven't had it since 1968, when the last FEC RY passenger train left the station. I've been in most of the meetings RE the Amtrak service proposal and believe me the CITY GOVERNMENT and TOURISM INDUSTRY gets it big time.

Jacksonville hasn't had train service to it's downtown since 1974, so again, it's pretty hard for people to grasp the enormity of the potential impact until they experience it for themselves. Sadly with the speed the city moves, the speed that Amtrak moves and the general 'tea party' mentality of the local media, the answer may still be sometime off in the future.

[dougskiles]

A commuter rail demostration project from Jax to St Augustine is needed.

Are you talking about something that would operate for a limited time just to give people an understanding of what commuter rail service could be?

[Jason]

Not necessarily operate, but a "touristy" train ride up and back and then an open house for the public to stop in and take a look.

[fsujax]

Yes Doug, it is exactly how Tri-Rail was implemented.

[Ocklawaha]

I would think a detailed grant request explaining to the FTA and/or FRA the fact that the Queen of England, King of Spain, and The Pope will inundate the area with more traffic then it has EVER seen. We need help and need it fast...  It really is the PERFECT storm to create an opportunity called RAIL.

OCKLAWAHA

[dougskiles]

So - what do we need to do to for this to happen?  Who are the players that need to be contacted?

[bill]

When is the last time SR 16, San Marco Avenue or King Street turned a profit?  Why hold rail to a higher standard?

I have seen this stated before. It would be interesting to know the actual subsidized cost per ride/mile of rail vs roadway. I'm sure someone has done such a comparison here before, but I would not know where to look.

I'm your huckleberry!

CAPITAL CONSTRUCTION COSTS - PER MILE:

$2,388,108.27   Rural 2 lane highway with 5' paved shoulders
$4,793,671.06 urban 2 lane urban arterial highway with 4' bike lanes
$8,874,542.46 urban 4 lane FREEway with barrier wall and 10' shoulders.

Costs are for an unobstructed flat roadways without real estate. Unless it is tolled, it has zero cost recovery from users. The highway's will have to be resurfaced every 10 years.

$432,346.91 milling and resurfacing 2 lane rural highway with 5' shoulders
$420,987.25 milling and resurfacing 2 lane urban arterial with 4' bike lanes
$845,824.25 milling and resurfacing 4 lane FREEway

SOURCE: FDOT generic cost per mile models

$3,000,000 single track railroad with bi-directional capacity of 2.5 highway lanes.

Requires resurfacing every 50-100 years at a cost of around $248,485

SOURCE: MODOT

Corridor passenger rail on existing trackage:

Amtrak 'VERMONTER' = $17.76 per train-mile
Amtrak 'DOWNEASTER' = $27.70 per train-mile

SOURCE: AMTRAK

High Speed Passenger Train on existing railroad = .10 cents per passenger mile

SOURCE: CALIFORNIA WATCH


COST OF AUTOMOBILE OPERATION ON EXISTING ROADWAY

Small sedan........41.5 cents per mile   $6,758 yr
Mid-sized sedan...57.3 cents per mile   $8,588 yr
Large sedan........73.2 cents per mile   $10,982 yr
4WD SUV...........75.9 cents per mile   $11,382 yr
Minivan..............63.3 cents per mile   $9,489 yr

SOURCE: AAA

Passenger rail will have cost recovery through the farebox, except for taxi's, automobiles won't.

Did you factor in the Amtrak subsidies?

[fsujax]

FTA is not going to fund a "tourist" service it would have to billed as a mitigation to traffic, but between them, FHWA, JTA, COJ, St Johns and St Augstine, it might could happen.

[dougskiles]

FTA is not going to fund a "tourist" service it would have to billed as a mitigation to traffic, but between them, FHWA, JTA, COJ, St Johns and St Augstine, it might could happen.

I think it is a good idea and one that I am willing to advocate for.  However, we will need to know specifics:

1. Duration and frequency of service
2. Cost
3. Coordination/approvals required between agencies/operators
4. Who are the decision makers?
5. Potential funding sources?