What are the characteristics of a rooming house/halfway house ?

[AlexS]

Let’s not discuss here whether they are good or bad for the neighborhood. Let’s also try not to discuss SPAR. Let’s also try not to increase your post count and contribute nothing of substance. We already have other threads to do that. Think all that is possible ?

I am trying to get the discussion started.
Lets take as example a house in Springfield. Say the property use is 0800 MULTI-FAMILY UNITS 2-9. The use description is APTS 10 UNITS OR LESS F. The building itself is either a triplex or a quadplex. The building is not on the list of legal grandfathered in rooming houses. No DBPR license exists. Neighbors notice that frequently people walk by and ask where the halfway house is. It turns out they are referring to the building described above.
Do you think this building is a rooming house/halfway house because this is what the renters or potential renters refer to it?
Should anyone question the legitimacy of such a place?
How should one go about checking compliance with existing zoning overlay?
Is the law specific enough to determine with certainty what this house is ?

Discussions about zoning overlay, rooming houses, boarding houses, apartments have been held in various places. I am trying to summarize the facts and legal definitions here in one place. Sorry for the lengthy post, but the information is rather complex.

Sec. 656.368. Springfield Historic Zoning Districts.
Springfield Historic Zoning Districts include the following:
I.   Residential Medium Density-Springfield (RMD-S) District.   
(a)   Permitted uses and structures.   
(1)   Single-family dwellings.
(2)   New two-family dwellings meeting the performance standards and development criteria set forth in this Section.
(3)   Original use two-family dwellings.
(4)   Original use multiple-family dwellings. Such dwellings cannot include more units than were within the structure at the time of construction.
(5)   Community residential homes of six or fewer residents meeting the performance standards and development criteria set forth in Part 4 of the Zoning Code and the special use criteria set forth in Section 656.369.
(6)   Housing for the elderly meeting the criteria for special uses set forth in Section 656.369.
(7)   Family day care homes meeting the performance standards and development criteria set forth in Part 4 of the Zoning Code.
(   Foster care homes.
(9)   Essential services, including water, sewer, gas, telephone, radio, television and electric, meeting the performance standards and development criteria set forth in Part 4 of the Zoning Code.
(10)   Churches, including a rectory or similar use, meeting the performance standards and development criteria set forth in Part 4.
(11)   Neighborhood parks, pocket parks, playgrounds or recreational structures which serve or support a neighborhood or several adjacent neighborhoods, meeting the performance standards and development criteria set forth in Part 4 of the Zoning Code.
(12)   Bed and breakfast establishments meeting the performance standards and development criteria set forth in Part 4 of the Zoning Code.
(b)   Permitted accessory uses and structures.   
(1)   Interior apartments in connection with single-family, owner-occupied properties, meeting the Springfield performance standards and development criteria set forth in Section 656.369.
(2)   Free-standing garages.
(3)   One free-standing garage apartment in connection with single-family, owner-occupied properties, meeting the Springfield performance standards and development criteria set forth in Section 656.369.
(4)   Original use garage apartments contributing structures only.
(5)   Home occupations meeting the Springfield performance standards and development criteria set forth in Section 656.369.
(6)   Pay phones meeting the Springfield supplemental standards and development criteria set forth in Section 656.369.1.
(7)   Satellite dishes meeting the Springfield supplemental standards and development criteria set forth in 656.369.1.
(   Vending machines meeting the Springfield supplemental standards and development criteria set forth in Section 656.369.1.
(c)   Permissible uses by exception.   
(1)   Historic use two-family dwellings, with a COA also required after granting of exception.
(2)   Historic use multiple-family dwellings, with a COA also required after granting of exception.

Sec. 656.369. (g)
special uses: residential treatment facilities, rooming houses, emergency shelter homes, group care homes, and community residential homes of seven or more residents

Sec. 656.1601. Definitions.

Bed and breakfast establishment  means a building or part thereof, other than a motel or hotel, originally constructed for residential use and located in an area of historical significance, as designated by the appropriate state or federal authority or as approved by the City Council and Historic Landmarks Commission of Jacksonville, where sleeping with a daily charge (no monthly rentals) and with the service of breakfast prepared by the operator or owner included in the daily charge and which also serves as the primary residence of the operator or owner thereof.

Boardinghouse  means a residential facility building where meals are regularly prepared and served to the residents only for compensation and where food is placed upon the table family-style without service or ordering of individual portions from a menu. A boardinghouse shall not be deemed to include a hotel, motel, group care home, family care home, recovery home, residential treatment facility, emergency shelter, emergency shelter home or nursing home.

Community residential home  means a dwelling unit licensed to serve clients of CFS, which provides a living environment for up to 14 residents who operate as the functional equivalent of a family, including such supervision and care by supportive staff as may be necessary to meet the physical, emotional and social needs of the residents. The residents of the community residential home are not to be related to the owner/operator by law, blood, marriage or adoption and shall be limited to those persons defined as "residents" in F.S. §419.001(1)(d).

Group care home  means a facility occupied by seven or more persons whether operated for profit or not, which provides, for a period exceeding 24 hours, one or more personal services for persons who required these personal services and are not related to the owner or administrator by law, blood, marriage or adoption and not in foster care. The personal services, in addition to housing and food services, may include personal assistance with bathing, dressing, housekeeping, adult supervision, emotional security and other related services but may not include medical services.

Residential treatment facility  means a facility other than a hospital or nursing home, having one or more supervisors residing on the premises and providing board, lodging, medication and other treatment and counseling for persons progressing from relatively intensive treatment for criminal conduct, delinquency, mental or emotional illness, alcoholism, drug addiction or similar conditions, as well as providing relatively intensive diagnostic or therapeutic services for alcoholism, drug abuse, mental illness, emotional problems, developmental disabilities or similar conditions for its residents. A residential treatment facility shall not be deemed to include a nursing home, hospital, group care home, or emergency shelter home. Nothing shall prevent a residential treatment facility from having out patients. The residents of the residential treatment facility are generally intending to return to full normal participation in community life.

Rooming houses  means a building in which sleeping accommodations are offered to the public where rentals are for a period of a week or longer and occupancy is generally by residents rather than transient.

The City's definition of "apartment" vs. "rooming unit" can be found here (Sec. 518.111. Definitions):
http://www.coj.net/Departments/Environmental+and+Compliance/Municipal+Code+Compliance/Chapter+518.htm

Apartment means a room or a suite of rooms occupied or which is intended or designed to be occupied as the residence of one individual, family or household for housekeeping purposes.

Apartment house means a building which is designed, built, rented, leased, let or hired out to be occupied or which actually is occupied as the residence of more than two families living independently of each other and doing their own cooking in the building, and shall include flats and apartments.

Rooming house means a dwelling containing one or more rooming units or one or more dormitory rooms.

Rooming unit means a room or group of rooms forming a single habitable unit which is used or intended to be used for living and sleeping but not for cooking or eating purposes.

509.242 defines a boardinghouse as subcategory of roominghouse.

§ 509.242(1)(f), Florida Statutes: Roominghouse.--A roominghouse is any public lodging establishment that may not be classified as a hotel, motel, resort condominium, nontransient apartment, bed and breakfast inn, or transient apartment under this section. A roominghouse includes, but is not limited to, a boardinghouse.

Rule 61C-1.002(4)(b), Florida Administrative Code: Nontransient establishments  nontransient establishments are classified as nontransient apartments and rooming houses as defined in section 509.242, FS, that have more than four units collectively and that are rented for periods of at least 30 days or 1 calendar month, whichever is less, and that are not advertised or held out to the public as places regularly rented for periods of less than 1 calendar month. Rooming houses do not include any establishment exempted pursuant to section 509.013(4), FS.

Rule 61C-1.002(4)(a), Florida Administrative Code: Transient establishments ââ,¬â€œ transient establishments are classified as hotels, motels, transient apartments and rooming houses as defined in section 509.242, FS, which are rented or leased to guests by an operator whose intention is that such guests' occupancy will be temporary.

Florida Building code (2004 , Section 403.1 "Minimum Fixtures" http://ecodes.iccsafe.org/icce/gateway.dll?f=templates&fn=default.htm&vid=icc:florida_plumbing ):

For an Apartment house, 1 water closet, one bathtub/shower and one kitchen sink is required per dwelling unit.  Boarding houses require only one watercloset for 10 residents (and only one sink).

Who needs a license ?

Anyone planning to operate a public lodging establishment in Florida will need a license from the Department of Business and Professional Regulation, Division of Hotels and Restaurants. According to section 509.013 (4), Florida Statutes (FS):

(a) "Public lodging establishment" means any unit, group of units, dwelling, building, or group of buildings within a single complex of buildings, which is rented to guests more than three times in a calendar year for periods of less than 30 days or one calendar month, whichever is less, or which is advertised or held out to the public as a place regularly rented to guests. License classifications of public lodging establishments, and the definitions therefor, are set out in s. 509.242, Florida Statutes. For the purpose of licensure, the term does not include condominium common elements as defined in s. 718.103, Florida Statutes.
(b) The following are excluded from the definition in paragraph (a):
1. Any dormitory or other living or sleeping facility maintained by a public or private school, college, or university for the use of students, faculty, or visitors;
2. Any hospital, nursing home, sanitarium, assisted living facility, or other similar place;
3. Any place renting four rental units or less, unless the rental units are advertised or held out to the public to be places that are regularly rented to transients;
4. Any unit or group of units in a condominium, cooperative, or timeshare plan and any individually or collectively owned one-family, two-family, three-family, or four-family dwelling house or dwelling unit that is rented for periods of at least 30 days or one calendar month, whichever is less, and that is not advertised or held out to the public as a place regularly rented for periods of less than one calendar month, provided that no more than four rental units within a single complex of buildings are available for rent;
5. Any migrant labor camp or residential migrant housing permitted by the Department of Health under ss. 381.008-381.00895, Florida Statutes; and
6. Any establishment inspected by the Department of Health and regulated by chapter 513, Florida Statutes.

http://www.myflorida.com/dbpr/hr/forms/documents/application_packet_for_lodging_license.pdf
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?Mode=View%20Statutes&Submenu=1&Tab=statutes

§ 509.242(1)(a), Florida Statutes: Hotel.--A hotel is any public lodging establishment containing sleeping room accommodations for 25 or more guests and providing the services generally provided by a hotel and recognized as a hotel in the community in which it is situated or by the industry.
§ 509.242(1)(b), Florida Statutes: Motel.--A motel is any public lodging establishment which offers rental units with an exit to the outside of each rental unit, daily or weekly rates, offstreet parking for each unit, a central office on the property with specified hours of operation, a bathroom or connecting bathroom for each rental unit, and at least six rental units, and which is recognized as a motel in the community in which it is situated or by the industry.
§ 509.242(1)(d), Florida Statutes: Nontransient apartment.--A nontransient apartment is any apartment building in which 75 percent or more of the units are available for rent to nontransient tenants.
Nontransient establishments are classified as nontransient apartments and rooming houses as defined in section 509.242, FS, that have more than four units collectively and that are rented for periods of at least 30 days or one calendar month, whichever is less, and that are not advertised or held out to the public as places regularly rented for periods of less than one calendar month. Rooming houses do not include any establishment exempted pursuant to section 509.013(4), FS. (Rule 61C-1.002(4)(b), Florida Administrative Code)
§ 509.242(1)(e), Florida Statutes: Transient apartment.--A transient apartment is any apartment building in which units are advertised or held out to the public as available for transient occupancy.
Transient establishments are classified as hotels, motels, transient apartments and rooming houses as defined in section 509.242, FS, which are rented or leased to guests by an operator whose intention is that such guests' occupancy will be temporary. (Rule 61C-1.002(4)(a), Florida Administrative Code)
§ 509.242(1)(f), Florida Statutes: Roominghouse.--A roominghouse is any public lodging establishment that may not be classified as a hotel, motel, resort condominium, nontransient apartment, bed and breakfast inn, or transient apartment under this section. A roominghouse includes, but is not limited to, a boardinghouse.
§ 509.242(1)(h), Florida Statutes: Bed and breakfast inn.--A bed and breakfast inn is a family home structure, with no more than 15 sleeping rooms, which has been modified to serve as a transient public lodging establishment, which provides the accommodation and meal services generally offered by a bed and breakfast inn, and which is recognized as a bed and breakfast inn in the community in which it is situated or by the hospitality industry.
§ 509.242(1)(c), Florida Statutes: Resort condominium.--A resort condominium is any unit or group of units in a condominium, cooperative, or timeshare plan which is rented more than three times in a calendar year for periods of less than 30 days or 1 calendar month, whichever is less, or which is advertised or held out to the public as a place regularly rented for periods of less than 30 days or 1 calendar month, whichever is less.                                  
§ 509.242(1)(g), Florida Statutes: Resort dwelling.--A resort dwelling is any individually or collectively owned one-family, two-family, three-family, or four-family dwelling house or dwelling unit which is rented more than three times in a calendar year for periods of less than 30 days or 1 calendar month, whichever is less, or which is advertised or held out to the public as a place regularly rented for periods of less than 30 days or 1 calendar month, whichever is less.

License types:

Hotel (2001/HOTL)
Nontransient Apartment (2003/NAPT)
Nontransient Roominghouse (2004/NRMH)
Motel (2002/MOTL)
Transient Apartment (2003/TAPT)
Transient Roominghouse (2004/TRMH)
Bed and Breakfast Inn (2005/BNB)

The letters of the license type are reflected on the DBPR site which shows info about licensed facilities.
https://www.myfloridalicense.com/wl11.asp?mode=2&search=LicTyp&SID=&brd=&typ=

[sheclown]

Additionally, any discussion about rooming houses, what constitutes one, also needs to include a discussion about civil liberties of the inhabitant. 

The house listed above does not belong to me and Joe although I know which one you are referring to.  The department of hotel/motel was there for an inspection.  The owner took the inspector, Moses, through and showed him the place.  Moses agreed that it was not a rooming house and closed the complaint.  Code enforcement showed up and did an inspection and closed the complaint.  This all happened back in 2007.

At some point, the civil liberties of the inhabitants needs to be protected.  The facility has been inspected, passed, and the case has been closed.  Just how many inspections does a place need.

All of our houses have been inspected, repeatedly, by code enforcement.  At some point, civil liberties of the inhabitants needs to be protected.  Why?  The constitution guarantees it.

Like it or not, the houses have been inspected, passed and closed.

People call "sober houses" halfway houses.  It generally means a house that you are not allowed to drink and drug in.

[strider]

You also need these definitions:

Dwelling, one-family or single-family means a building containing only one dwelling unit. The term is not to be construed as including recreational vehicles, tents, houseboats or other forms of temporary or portable house. Manufactured homes and modular homes which comply with the provisions of Subpart C, Part 4 of the Zoning Code are considered single-family dwellings. For the purposes of this Zoning Code, row houses, townhouses, condominiums, cooperative apartments or other form of dwelling units which are not in individual detached buildings meeting all the requirements of a single-family dwelling shall not be construed to be single-family dwellings. A building in which a room or other portion is rented to or occupied by someone other than a part of the family shall not be considered to be a single-family dwelling.
Dwelling unit means a room or rooms connected together constituting a separate, independent housekeeping establishment for a family, for owner occupancy or for rental or lease on a weekly, monthly or longer basis, physically separated from other rooms or dwelling units which may be in the same structure and containing sleeping facilities and one kitchen.

Family means one or more persons occupying a single dwelling unit; provided, that, unless all members are related by law, blood, adoption or marriage, no family shall contain over five persons. Domestic servants employed on the premises may be housed on the premises without being counted as a separate or additional family or families. The term family shall not be construed to mean a fraternity, sorority, club, monastery or convent, rooming or boardinghouse, emergency shelter, emergency shelter home, group care home, residential treatment facility, recovery home or nursing home, foster care home or family care home.

Additionally, if you look at a legal triplex, it is simply three single dwelling units attached that can have three separate families living in it.  As up to five unrelated adults can live together as a "family", up to five unrelated adults may live in a single family home or unit.

[strider]

You also need this from the overlay:

(4)   New rooming houses are not permitted. Existing rooming houses shall be identified by one or more of the following existing conditions, each of which shall create a rebuttable presumption that a building is a rooming house:
(A)   Signs that indicate rooms, beds, or living spaces for rent;
(B)   Interior locks, partitions, hasps, appliances such as electric fry pans, toaster ovens, refrigerators, etc.;
(C)   Individual storage of food;
(D)   Alphabetical, numeric, or other labeling of bedrooms or living areas;
(E)   Alterations to structures which enhance or facilitate its use as a rooming house.

While this mentions "existing rooming houses” shall be identified by these characteristics, I also know that this is also part of the criteria used to determine if a complaint that a building is being used as a rooming house is valid or not.  By and by, though it says "individual storage of food”, I wouldn't put much stock in that one as then a son or daughter could not have a small refrigerator in their room nor could a wife, for instance, that is vegetarian keep a separate food supply from the non-vegetarian husband. Same with most of the listed appliances.

What code enforcement is more likely to look for is whether the common areas, like living rooms, dining rooms, kitchens and family rooms, are indeed set up and used for the intended purpose.  In other words, can the “family” members sit and watch TV together, eat together and cook together if they so chose.  You can not require this behavior in a “unrelated family” anymore than you can in a “blood related” one, but the presumption of the possibility of acting together as a family unit must be there.

As to those who call a place a halfway house, you can not determine that a structure is a halfway house as defined based on a hearsay comment anymore than you could truly consider a 1000 SF home that a man calls his “castle” a true castle by definition.  The laws specifies what constitutes a halfway house and so that is the only way to determine if a house fits that definition.

If you have an issue with a house, and an attempt at talking to the owner about the houses fails, then you certainly have a right to call either the licensing body that would license a halfway house or the COJ code enforcement department.  However, I do believe that once one or both of those parties have inspected and stated that the house is legal, then it must be accepted as legal.

Overall, there must be some common sense applied.  If a place is full of bad neighbors, then there is a process, even if it is not very effective, to handle that.  Trying to prove a place is an illegal use just to get rid of people one does not like should not be an acceptable method of handling the problem.

[AlexS]

Additionally, any discussion about rooming houses, what constitutes one, also needs to include a discussion about civil liberties of the inhabitant. 

The house listed above does not belong to me and Joe although I know which one you are referring to.  The department of hotel/motel was there for an inspection.  The owner took the inspector, Moses, through and showed him the place.  Moses agreed that it was not a rooming house and closed the complaint.  Code enforcement showed up and did an inspection and closed the complaint.  This all happened back in 2007.

At some point, the civil liberties of the inhabitants needs to be protected.  The facility has been inspected, passed, and the case has been closed.  Just how many inspections does a place need.

As no specific property was mentioned, the arguments miss the point. The questions asked were not answered.

[AlexS]

As to those who call a place a halfway house, you can not determine that a structure is a halfway house as defined based on a hearsay comment anymore than you could truly consider a 1000 SF home that a man calls his “castle” a true castle by definition.  The laws specifies what constitutes a halfway house and so that is the only way to determine if a house fits that definition.

Please quote the specific law which defines a halfway house as I could not find such law.

[strider]

Let me rewrite the paragraph for you…also, you "labeled" the house a “half-way house” in your example and I just continued it.  Pretty much the same statement I made can be used for an supposed rooming house, boarding house, ETC.

As to those who call a place a halfway house, you can not determine that a structure is a halfway house as defined based on a hearsay comment anymore than you could truly consider a 1000 SF home that a man calls his “castle” a true castle by definition. The laws specifies what constitutes a “halfway house” in some manor, though the actual term “half-way house” may not be used and so that is the only way to determine if a house fits that definition.

To explain, let’s first look at an accepted definition of a half-way house: (wepidia)

The purpose of a halfway house, also called a recovery house or sober house, is generally to allow people to begin the process of reintegration with society, while still providing monitoring and support; this is generally believed to reduce the risk of recidivism or relapse when compared to a release directly into society. Some halfway houses are meant solely for reintegration of persons who have been recently released from prison or jail, others are meant for people with chronic mental health disorders, and most others are for people with substance abuse issues. These sober halfway houses are many times voluntary places of residence and many of the residents may have no criminal record whatsoever. There is often opposition from neighborhoods where halfway houses attempt to locate

Most programs in the United States make a distinction between a halfway house and a sober/recovery house. A halfway house has an active rehabilitation treatment program run throughout the day, where the residents receive intensive individual and group counseling for their substance abuse while they establish a sober support network, secure new employment, and find new housing. Residents stay for one to six months. Their stay is usually financed by their behavioral health insurance. Whereas at places labeled as recovery houses or soberhouses for those with substance abuse problems, residents are only asked to remain sober and comply with a minimal recovery program. Residents pay for their own stay.

In the United States, a halfway house may also refer to a place where one stops midway through a journey.

By looking at the COJ codes, we do not see half-way house actually defined anywhere, at least performing a search for the term “half-way house” within the city code yields no results and I have never seen the term defined within the code myself.   We do know, however, that the facilities accepted here in Springfield are licensed by both the DOH and the DBPR.  These licenses, and I am not bothering to pull up that information as it has been posted many times before, vary between facilities, but basically, one of the accepted “half-way houses” is licensed as a rooming house with a commercial kitchen license. This is the same licensing arrangement that a boarding house would have.  Therefore we can assume that for licensing purposes,  the state of Florida looks at a “half-way house” as something close to a boarding house.  If the state is told that a house is an illegal “half-way house”, then the inspector would compare the accused houses to this licensing standard.

The DOH is different and seem to only be concerned with the commercial kitchen side of things, though some of what I have read can be interpreted to include the residential side of the facility as well, the DOH themselves does not seem to use that interpretation.   Therefore, unless there is a commercial kitchen on site, the DOH probably  would not be concerned and an illegal “half-way house complaint.”  Which would throw the complaint back to the code enforcement people and the standards I set forth in my previous post.

[strider]

Perhaps it is time to look at the questions you posted and do a set of answers:

Do you think this building is a rooming house/halfway house because this is what the renters or potential renters refer to it?

No, renters or potential renters can call it anything they like.  A legal determination is needed to finally define what the house is.

Should anyone question the legitimacy of such a place?

I think first one needs to ask themselves the question, is this house posing a problem for me? Are they good or bad neighbors?  In other words, each individual should make this decision for themselves. Like in any situation involving neighbors, the owner should be approached first.  If that does not satisfy your issues, then  your options are the DBPR or the COJ code enforcement.

How should one go about checking compliance with existing zoning overlay?

Technically, it is not a neighbors job to check the compliance of any other persons house or business.  However, that being said,  COJ uses (as most cities do..) a complaint based system so one could interpret that to mean you have the right to check on that compliance.  I will tell you spouting the codes to the enforcement people is not the way to handle it.  If you think a house is not in compliance, then turn it in and allow the city to do it’s job.

Is the law specific enough to determine with certainty what this house is ?

Yes, to the degree the writers of the law believe it had to be.  Actual and legally licensed  “half-way”, rooming and boarding houses exist within the city of Jacksonville so we can see that the laws have indeed identified those facilities as what they are.  A reasonable criteria has been set, used and proven to work to identify those facilities.

One question that seems to be missing is:

If a house has been turned in and found to be legal by the various licensing and enforcement agencies, and I do not like the determination of those agencies, what should I do to change that outcome?

The answer to that question is nothing, unless reasonable new evidence comes to light that something has changed within the house in question to indicate that the use has changed since the last enforcement investigation.   This new evidence must be real and not hearsay or you are simply wasting the tax payers money and the city ‘s time and the complaints become harassment. 

Once the determination has been made that a suspected illegal use house is indeed legal, then Sheclown’s point comes into play. Continued complaints against the house and any attempt at changing the laws or the interpretation of those laws begins to interfere with the  civil liberties of the inhabitants.

[ChriswUfGator]

One question that seems to be missing is:

If a house has been turned in and found to be legal by the various licensing and enforcement agencies, and I do not like the determination of those agencies, what should I do to change that outcome?

The answer to that question is nothing, unless reasonable new evidence comes to light that something has changed within the house in question to indicate that the use has changed since the last enforcement investigation.   This new evidence must be real and not hearsay or you are simply wasting the tax payers money and the city ‘s time and the complaints become harassment. 

Once the determination has been made that a suspected illegal use house is indeed legal, then Sheclown’s point comes into play. Continued complaints against the house and any attempt at changing the laws or the interpretation of those laws begins to interfere with the  civil liberties of the inhabitants.

Ah, come on, they already know that.

They just don't like how it turns out, so they continue turning in the same place over and over again for different violations, trying to couch that same question inside other bogus B.S. so it appears to be "new" issues. They do that specifically to trigger enforcement, knowing that COJ won't do anything if it's just the same complaint over and over again. Which it is. So they make "new" stuff up in the hopes that the original determination will be revisited.

In your case, it's all coming from the same place...and really from one individual when you get right down to it. I've been horrified ever since it came out awhile back that SPAR maintained a list of places it didn't like, so that multiple people could call and file complaints about those places with COJ. People who probably hadn't even seen the place, except on that list. And of course when you brought this up with that individual, the response was fake assault allegations and an (illegal) attempt to ban you from further public meetings. Which of course, only verifies what you already suspected.

The real question ought to be "Are these places good neighbors?". Why are people getting so upset about something they never would have noticed or even realized was there in the first place, if someone else hadn't made a big deal and told them it was a "problem"?

There are rehab/halfway houses in Riverside too, but R'side doesn't have prostitutes and crack dealers wandering around in broad daylight. AFAIC, this is a blatant attempt to pin the neighborhood's larger problems on an easy target. And while we have everybody distracted and up in arms over a halfway house (that was there before any of them moved into the neighborhood), let's just knock down that historic house so we can deliver another a vacant lot to that developer who just wrote me a $200k check.

[sheclown]

One question that seems to be missing is:

If a house has been turned in and found to be legal by the various licensing and enforcement agencies, and I do not like the determination of those agencies, what should I do to change that outcome?

The answer to that question is nothing, unless reasonable new evidence comes to light that something has changed within the house in question to indicate that the use has changed since the last enforcement investigation.   This new evidence must be real and not hearsay or you are simply wasting the tax payers money and the city ‘s time and the complaints become harassment. 

Once the determination has been made that a suspected illegal use house is indeed legal, then Sheclown’s point comes into play. Continued complaints against the house and any attempt at changing the laws or the interpretation of those laws begins to interfere with the  civil liberties of the inhabitants.

Ah, come on, they already know that.

They just don't like how it turns out, so they continue turning in the same place over and over again for different violations, trying to couch that same question inside other bogus B.S. so it appears to be "new" issues. They do that specifically to trigger enforcement, knowing that COJ won't do anything if it's just the same complaint over and over again. Which it is. So they make "new" stuff up in the hopes that the original determination will be revisited.

In your case, it's all coming from the same place...and really from one individual when you get right down to it. I've been horrified ever since it came out awhile back that SPAR maintained a list of places it didn't like, so that multiple people could call and file complaints about those places with COJ. People who probably hadn't even seen the place, except on that list. And of course when you brought this up with that individual, the response was fake assault allegations and an (illegal) attempt to ban you from further public meetings. Which of course, only verifies what you already suspected.

The real question ought to be "Are these places good neighbors?". Why are people getting so upset about something they never would have noticed or even realized was there in the first place, if someone else hadn't made a big deal and told them it was a "problem"?

There are rehab/halfway houses in Riverside too, but R'side doesn't have prostitutes and crack dealers wandering around in broad daylight. AFAIC, this is a blatant attempt to pin the neighborhood's larger problems on an easy target. And while we have everybody distracted and up in arms over a halfway house (that was there before any of them moved into the neighborhood), let's just knock down that historic house so we can deliver another a vacant lot to that developer who just wrote me a $200k check.

That about sums it up. 

[AlexS]

Let’s not discuss here whether they are good or bad for the neighborhood. Let’s also try not to discuss SPAR. Let’s also try not to increase your post count and contribute nothing of substance. We already have other threads to do that. Think all that is possible ?

Lets stay on topic. There already are plenty threads about SPAR and there already is one if roominghouses are good for the neighborhood.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,5640.0.html

[zoo]

AlexS, I don't think you'll get your answers with this thread. It's turning into same thread, different day. I think I'm out for good, too (so the pending attacks will go unread). Hopefully these three or four will grow bored deluding each other, and we can someday start having honest, positive communication, consistent with the direction of the community, once again.

[strider]

Ok, so then Alex, what are your answers to your own questions?  I have answered them and I believe done so in the spirit of your thread and also keeping within the laws as they are now written. What do you think?  How would you answer the question I added? Which is:

If a house has been turned in and found to be legal by the various licensing and enforcement agencies, and I do not like the determination of those agencies, what should I do to change that outcome?

and Zoo, if you had read my posts, you would know that I did certainly answer his questions as well as provided additional information to help this thread along.  How about it, care to give your answers?

[AlexS]

This will have to wait a bit. Heading on overseas business trip now. So a week of silence is expected from me.

[AlexS]

I am having a bit time to spare at the airport. So I give my own questions a shot.

Do you think this building is a rooming house/halfway house because this is what the renters or potential renters refer to it?

Yes. If the law doesn't see it as what it's really used for, then the intent of the law is missed or it is being circumvented.

Should anyone question the legitimacy of such a place?

Yes. Otherwise what good does it do to have a law on the books which is intended to prevent additional special use facilities. As long as the house does not draw attention it will probably stay under the radar and not be reported.

How should one go about checking compliance with existing zoning overlay?

Report it through the complaint based system and allow the city to do it’s job. It probably would be helpful if inspectors could perform an unannounced inspection (similar to how restaurants are inspected). Otherwise things can be made look proper for the inspector ahead of the visit.

Is the law specific enough to determine with certainty what this house is ?

No, I don't think it is. I am an educated person who reads the law but can't figure out what is what. Too many gray areas to be really enforceable in my opinion.

If a house has been turned in and found to be legal by the various licensing and enforcement agencies, and I do not like the determination of those agencies, what should I do to change that outcome?

Nothing. Unless material new information is discovered after the inspection or there is strong suspicion that the inspector has been mislead by creating a potemkin village.