SPAR's Main Street Property Enhancement Program

[jason_contentdg]

Well I have to disagree with that comment Jason.

The program was pointed lifted up for the spotlight as an example of SPAR's importance and good in the neighborhood, by the SPAR representative.

If there are questions about how it works, given the reason why the program is public in the first place, then in all fairness they should be answered.

Stephen, it's a program to help businesses, which in turn will help the neighborhood.  I would hope that the businesses that this would actually effect are being told everything they need to know.  If someone not in the neighborhood, or is not a business owner that can use this program thinks they have they need to know the ins and outs of the program, then maybe they should go and ask for information, not expect it to be delivered to them on a site with no affiliation, that's all.

[CityLife]

As it's based on "Community Contribution Tax Credit Program" you should find more info from the links below

http://www.floridaenterprisezone.com/PageView.asp?edit_id=27

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=CH0220/Sec183.HTM

I understand what a friggin' community tax incentive program is, Alex. That's not the point. Why can nobody answer the question here? The two biggies are;

A: Why are the recipient businesses now being charged the cost of items that were originally "donated" or "free"?

and;

B: Who's getting the money?

If you would read the original post and any literature related to the program, you will see that business owners were always supposed to pay the 35% fee. Not even sure what you are implying.

It has been spelled out pretty clearly who gets the money. Property owners on Main Street get the donated product. The money that they have to pay, you know the 35% that has been talked about all along would go to any business that will make an improvement to their building. I will re-iterate a point I made in a prior post that you probably glossed over. If X business owner wants $10K worth of signage from Quality Sign, he has has to pay someone the equivalent to 35% of the value of the donated product. So he could pay a landscape company, a lighting company, and artist, or whoever to improve his building by that amount. Its not that complicated...

[ChriswUfGator]

Well I have to disagree with that comment Jason.

The program was pointed lifted up for the spotlight as an example of SPAR's importance and good in the neighborhood, by the SPAR representative.

If there are questions about how it works, given the reason why the program is public in the first place, then in all fairness they should be answered.

Stephen, it's a program to help businesses, which in turn will help the neighborhood.  I would hope that the businesses that this would actually effect are being told everything they need to know.  If someone not in the neighborhood, or is not a business owner that can use this program thinks they have they need to know the ins and outs of the program, then maybe they should go and ask for information, not expect it to be delivered to them on a site with no affiliation, that's all.

Then why did SPAR go around posting this up as a shining example of its good deeds for the neighborhood, on that same "site with no affiliation"? So SPAR has no trouble using this site for its own free public relations needs, but nobody is allowed to question anything that SPAR originally posted here, if it smells fishy?

That makes sense to you?

[jason_contentdg]

Also, we're talking signage amongst other things, so who builds their own commercial signage? I would suspect nobody. CLEARLY a contractor is involved there, there's no way around it that I'm aware of...at least not if you want the result to be considered an "improvement"...

Chris, I've tried to be patient and cordial with you, but you are really grasping at straws. The sign company is Quality Sign, you know the guys who did the signs for what was formerly Alltel Stadium, the ones who do many of the signs on downtown skyscrapers. So yea, they do design and build their own signage. You CLEARLY are a little off base here.

Like I said, go enjoy the beautiful weather out there and let the State, SPAR, and Main Street Property Owners/Business owners worry about the program. If I see you at a MetroJacksonville meeting or something I can explain particular details, otherwise its a waste of time arguing. I know I've got more pressing matters to attend to.

CityLife, that post of mine you're quoting was not aimed at you, but rather at Jason, who was making a rather silly argument about my use of the word "contractor". Nobody builds their own commercial signage, and nobody builds their own commercial awnings, both of which are fully custom items, and my post simply pointed that out. It was not directed at you.

Also, I have never met you, but if we ever did meet, please rest assured I would be more than cordial and would happily buy you a drink and have a pleasant conversation. My questions about what happened to this program aren't aimed at you personally, and I certainly do not have any problem with you personally.

Right, Chris, I think a better term would be subcontractors, which could be electricians, plumbers, awning or signage providers.  I don't want people to get confused thinking an outfit has been hired to oversee all of the renovations.

[ChriswUfGator]

As it's based on "Community Contribution Tax Credit Program" you should find more info from the links below

http://www.floridaenterprisezone.com/PageView.asp?edit_id=27

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=CH0220/Sec183.HTM

I understand what a friggin' community tax incentive program is, Alex. That's not the point. Why can nobody answer the question here? The two biggies are;

A: Why are the recipient businesses now being charged the cost of items that were originally "donated" or "free"?

and;

B: Who's getting the money?

If you would read the original post and any literature related to the program, you will see that business owners were always supposed to pay the 35% fee. Not even sure what you are implying.

It has been spelled out pretty clearly who gets the money. Property owners on Main Street get the donated product. The money that they have to pay, you know the 35% that has been talked about all along would go to any business that will make an improvement to their building. I will re-iterate a point I made in a prior post that you probably glossed over. If X business owner wants $10K worth of signage from Quality Sign, he has has to pay someone the equivalent to 35% of the value of the donated product. So he could pay a landscape company, a lighting company, and artist, or whoever to improve his building by that amount. Its not that complicated...

Well, actually, it started off at 10% per your own post, but ok.

So as I understand it now, I can get a $10k sign FOR FREE if I spend $3,500.00 doing other improvements to my building?

So I would owe the signage contractor $0.00?

I would owe SPAR $0.00?

I would get to pick whatever other outside contractor of my own choosing to conduct the $3,500.00 worth of additional improvements?

There is no list of contractors I must choose from?

[CS Foltz]

So the general concensus appears to be...........$70K SPAR Council got, has yet to be handed out and there has been no business's that have benefited from this supposed Grant to SPAR? Has any business gotten anything from this program or is it just the selected/annointed in Springfield?

[ChriswUfGator]

Also, we're talking signage amongst other things, so who builds their own commercial signage? I would suspect nobody. CLEARLY a contractor is involved there, there's no way around it that I'm aware of...at least not if you want the result to be considered an "improvement"...

Chris, I've tried to be patient and cordial with you, but you are really grasping at straws. The sign company is Quality Sign, you know the guys who did the signs for what was formerly Alltel Stadium, the ones who do many of the signs on downtown skyscrapers. So yea, they do design and build their own signage. You CLEARLY are a little off base here.

Like I said, go enjoy the beautiful weather out there and let the State, SPAR, and Main Street Property Owners/Business owners worry about the program. If I see you at a MetroJacksonville meeting or something I can explain particular details, otherwise its a waste of time arguing. I know I've got more pressing matters to attend to.

CityLife, that post of mine you're quoting was not aimed at you, but rather at Jason, who was making a rather silly argument about my use of the word "contractor". Nobody builds their own commercial signage, and nobody builds their own commercial awnings, both of which are fully custom items, and my post simply pointed that out. It was not directed at you.

Also, I have never met you, but if we ever did meet, please rest assured I would be more than cordial and would happily buy you a drink and have a pleasant conversation. My questions about what happened to this program aren't aimed at you personally, and I certainly do not have any problem with you personally.

Right, Chris, I think a better term would be subcontractors, which could be electricians, plumbers, awning or signage providers.  I don't want people to get confused thinking an outfit has been hired to oversee all of the renovations.

Right, I think we agree with each other, we were just getting caught up in language. I tend think in terms of legal relationships, where a sub is only a sub if there's a GC or another sub above him. In this case, whoever it is will be hired directly by the owner, so it was appropriate to just say contractor. I did not mean to imply that there was a GC/sub relationship, or to cause any additional confusion.

[ChriswUfGator]

So the general concensus appears to be...........$70K SPAR Council got, has yet to be handed out and there has been no business's that have benefited from this supposed Grant to SPAR? Has any business gotten anything from this program or is it just the selected/annointed in Springfield?

That has been my understanding, CS Foltz.

Has there actually been a single grant that has been disbursed yet? Anybody?

[jason_contentdg]

Also, we're talking signage amongst other things, so who builds their own commercial signage? I would suspect nobody. CLEARLY a contractor is involved there, there's no way around it that I'm aware of...at least not if you want the result to be considered an "improvement"...

Chris, I've tried to be patient and cordial with you, but you are really grasping at straws. The sign company is Quality Sign, you know the guys who did the signs for what was formerly Alltel Stadium, the ones who do many of the signs on downtown skyscrapers. So yea, they do design and build their own signage. You CLEARLY are a little off base here.

Like I said, go enjoy the beautiful weather out there and let the State, SPAR, and Main Street Property Owners/Business owners worry about the program. If I see you at a MetroJacksonville meeting or something I can explain particular details, otherwise its a waste of time arguing. I know I've got more pressing matters to attend to.

CityLife, that post of mine you're quoting was not aimed at you, but rather at Jason, who was making a rather silly argument about my use of the word "contractor". Nobody builds their own commercial signage, and nobody builds their own commercial awnings, both of which are fully custom items, and my post simply pointed that out. It was not directed at you.

Also, I have never met you, but if we ever did meet, please rest assured I would be more than cordial and would happily buy you a drink and have a pleasant conversation. My questions about what happened to this program aren't aimed at you personally, and I certainly do not have any problem with you personally.

Right, Chris, I think a better term would be subcontractors, which could be electricians, plumbers, awning or signage providers.  I don't want people to get confused thinking an outfit has been hired to oversee all of the renovations.

Right, I think we agree with each other, we were just getting caught up in language. I tend think in terms of legal relationships, where a sub is only a sub if there's a GC or another sub above him. In this case, whoever it is will be hired directly by the owner, so it was appropriate to just say contractor. I did not mean to imply that there was a GC/sub relationship, or to cause any additional confusion.

Sure, so as I've seen it....

If you receive signage, Quality Signs will provide the product and the installation, which would be the same with the awning company and I assume, fencing company.

Paint would be the material only, and the business would have to hire a painter.

Obviously, for the majority of these businesses the improvements probably won't or shouldn't stop there, so they will have to hire others to make improvements, which would not be affiliated with the donated items or services.

[jason_contentdg]

There does need to be a set of priorities established, and I hope to see them choose the correct ones, soon.

[CityLife]

So the general concensus appears to be...........$70K SPAR Council got, has yet to be handed out and there has been no business's that have benefited from this supposed Grant to SPAR? Has any business gotten anything from this program or is it just the selected/annointed in Springfield?

That has been my understanding, CS Foltz.

Has there actually been a single grant that has been disbursed yet? Anybody?

If you would go back and read my first post today you would see that we are actively working with a few businesses to get them the products. When the details are ready to be released they will be.

[ChriswUfGator]

So the general concensus appears to be...........$70K SPAR Council got, has yet to be handed out and there has been no business's that have benefited from this supposed Grant to SPAR? Has any business gotten anything from this program or is it just the selected/annointed in Springfield?

That has been my understanding, CS Foltz.

Has there actually been a single grant that has been disbursed yet? Anybody?

If you would go back and read my first post today you would see that we are actively working with a few businesses to get them the products. When the details are ready to be released they will be.

Jeremy, I am reading your posts, they're just not answering the questions.

So I will take it that your response is a "No" and that no grants have actually been disbursed?

[ChriswUfGator]

Not that it helps to pick on poor Jeremy who is probably the one positive person at the organization, trying to actually get something done.

I know, I kind of feel bad, as he's apparently the only nice one over there. I really do owe him a drink sometime, and I don't think he's responsible for the current condition of this grant program. I again reiterate I have no problem with him personally at all, and am not aiming any of my comments at him personally.

Sometimes it just sucks to be the messenger.

[jason_contentdg]

Jeremy.

Thanks for both taking the time to explain it, as well as your work in trying to get it done.  You have a very challenging environment that you are working in, and it wouldnt be fair to you not to recognize that fact or even notice that you seem to be plugging along very consistently despite the adversity.

I enjoyed taking a walk with you around the neighborhood last week or so. 

Its got to be tough to deal with so many self inflicted problems on behalf of an organization when you had no part in the architecture of the problems in the first place.

True, which is why we may need to hold off in thinking certain things must be disingenuous if we don't get the answers we like on demand, no matter which organization they come from.

[CityLife]

Mayor Peyton,

When will the courthouse be completed?

President Obama,

When will we withdraw from Iraq?


Just giving you a hard time Chris, like I said we will put the information out there when we are ready. We are actively working to make things happen and some projects should be breaking ground shortly.

I'll take that beer at the next MetroJacksonville meeting. A Duke's might ease the pain of having to deal with all of you madmen. j/k