City asked to ban carriage horses

[Jason]

City asked to ban carriage horses

Animal rights group protests on grounds of horse cruelty

By PETER GUINTA  |   More by this reporter  |  peter.guinta@staugustine.com  |   Posted: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 ; Updated: 12:05 AM on Tuesday, September 29, 2009


The Animal Rights Foundation of Florida on Monday asked the St. Augustine City Commission to "join other progressive cities across the globe and ban horse-drawn carriages on city streets."

Carla Wilson, Central Florida coordinator for the foundation, told the commission she wanted to "open a dialogue" with them to seek "a solution to the problem."

"People (these days) are less aware of what is going on around them," Wilson said. "This is unfortunate for horse-drawn carriages. Although they were a traditional means of transport 100 years ago, now we use cars, which are a way of life in St. Augustine."

City commissioners listened politely to Wilson but did not discuss, comment or vote on the issue.

Robert Murphy McDaniel, a St. Augustine native and owner of St. Augustine Transfer Co., the oldest continuously operated horse carriage facility in the United States, said two state veterinarians had just examined his barn and horses.

"They found nothing wrong with what we are doing," he said. "They said it was far improved over the last time they were here. People see horses as big, strong animals, and they are. But they are not tough animals and will not stand long-term abuse. They would die. None of us has seen a dead horse on the street."

Animal rights activists are "urban terrorists" because some destroy animal research labs, he said.

Wilson pointed to the 28 horse-carriage accidents in St. Augustine since 1987.

The last one was June 9, where five people in a horse-drawn carriage were forced to jump to safety after their carriage horse bolted and pulled the carriage for several blocks. Two passengers were injured, one seriously enough to go to the hospital. The horse was not injured.

"And these are the ones we know of," she said. "People have had broken bones, stitches and hospital visits."

No horses or humans were killed in any of the 28 accidents in St. Augustine. But people and horses died from accidents in other cities.

The foundation says horses on the street have been known to grow lame from pounding hard streets, suffer heat prostration and dehydration in the summer, become spooked for no particular and become susceptible to respiratory diseases.

"These animals live a nose-to-tailpipe existence," she said.

The commission was already considering the creation of safer carriage routes, which is why the foundation came to St. Augustine, Wilson said.

"Any proposed route is still unsafe for the public and the horses," she said. "They are slow-moving vehicles on already congested streets."

McDaniel said these groups have an agenda: "They want to tell us where to live, what to eat and wear or use as transportation or, whether or not we should even use animals."

Wilson said this has been an issue with the Animal Rights Foundation for 10 years.

"We're hoping the commission will take notice," she said after her presentation. "It's their responsibility to keep their people and tourists safe. We thought it was time to speak out."

Source: http://staugustine.com/stories/092909/news_2024894.shtml

[jason_contentdg]

While I'm not a big fan of these horse drawn carriage tourist outfits, it seems to me that:

"People (these days) are less aware of what is going on around them," Wilson said. "This is unfortunate for horse-drawn carriages. Although they were a traditional means of transport 100 years ago, now we use cars, which are a way of life in St. Augustine."

and

"Any proposed route is still unsafe for the public and the horses," she said. "They are slow-moving vehicles on already congested streets."

Doesn't seem like a very good argument against horse drawn carriages, it could just as easily be against bicyclists or even pedestrians. Which are obviously allowed, and should be allowed.

I think it's only a humane issue and not a vehicular safety issue.

[Jason]

^ Agree Jason.

IMO, the carriages are too big a part of the St. Augustine cultural experience to nix them.  Perhaps some limitations on how long a certain horse can work may be beneficial.

[grange78]

I'm torn...  They have these in Chicago, which I'm good with, but St. Augustine? I mean, it is Florida.  It's hot.  Coupled with having to stand on asphalt all day.  I wouldn't want that gig.  Much less force an opinionless animal to do it either.  Then again, who says a seeing eye dog wants to be a seeing eye dog?    

I'd suggest replacing them with some sort of electric vehicle.  They don't mind the heat.

[buckethead]

I am far from vegan or PETA, but those horses live a miserable existence. More shaded routes on carless thouroughfares would be a better way for them to do business.

I St Auggie, I don't see the space for that to happen. Ah well. Glue ain't gettin' no cheaper.

[KenFSU]

Perhaps some limitations on how long a certain horse can work may be beneficial.

Awesome idea.

Seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise. I don't think a limited schedule would be that disagreeable to the animals. It's not like horses have a long evolutionary history of living in air-conditioned homes and being handfed oats by their butler. Studies actually suggest that animals benefit from being given jobs. It's natural for a horse to work. As long as it's not long, slavish shifts, I don't see the big deal. It gives the horse purpose. They never look stressed, angry, thirsty or hungry out there. 

[Ocklawaha]

Perhaps some limitations on how long a certain horse can work may be beneficial.

Awesome idea.

Seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise. I don't think a limited schedule would be that disagreeable to the animals. It's not like horses have a long evolutionary history of living in air-conditioned homes and being handfed oats by their butler. Studies actually suggest that animals benefit from being given jobs. It's natural for a horse to work. As long as it's not long, slavish shifts, I don't see the big deal. It gives the horse purpose. They never look stressed, angry, thirsty or hungry out there. 

This is exactly what was done in the 1880's when the horse car lines were being phased out in larger cities, including Jax.. A early animal group got our horse car lines to limit their hours. A carriage is a whole lot lighter then a horse car, but rubber tires over the wheels might make up for some of that with rolling resistance.

OCKLAWAHA

[DavidWilliams]

They do trend toward a heavy carbon footprint (hoofprint? )with all that methane output. 

[Bewler]

Yeah… can’t they just make it so the horses don’t pull during say 12 â€" 3 pm in mid summer or something?

[stjr]

We have imitation trolleys with the PCT's.  Why stop there?  How about imitation horses?  With today's robotics and peoples lack of familiarity from seeing hardly anything "real" anymore,  who would know the difference ?!  Jax's Sally Industries could probably cook up a great looking substitute

[Jason]

^ Nice idea StJr!  And an even better recommendation on the company.

I tried REALLY hard to get a job with them out of college but they sadly weren't hiring at the point.

[reednavy]

I say they just go all-out and ban all horse carriages, even the Amish.

[Bewler]

Let’s go ahead and ban horses too. I mean, who do they think they are?

Horses… humbug!

[stjr]

We have imitation trolleys with the PCT's.  Why stop there?  How about imitation horses?  With today's robotics and peoples lack of familiarity from seeing hardly anything "real" anymore,  who would know the difference ?!  Jax's Sally Industries could probably cook up a great looking substitute

Any volunteers to cook up a realistic imitation manure pile and horse breath with appropriate sensory activations?  Whoaaaaaa.....

[JaxBorn1962]

I say they just go all-out and ban all horse carriages, even the Amish.

The horse carriages don't hurt anybody most people who are (Peta Nuts) truly believe that All Animals should roam the Earth like the Cows do in India