Bus Shelter Advertising Debate headed to City Council

[CS Foltz]

I find it interesting that JTA can have acess to $60 Million Dollars to build a new "Transportation Center" but can not build some lousy bus shelters! With the delay in producing numbers that show difinitively just what dollars it takes to maintain shelters, I get the impression that JTA is cooking the numbers! If JTA does not know by now, how long have they been operating, when will they know? This is an Agency that has gaps in their information base and to me, shows how inept they really are........BRT huh?

[tufsu1]

CS....JTA does not have access to $60 million for the Transportation Center!

For the last (hopefully) time, JTA made a joint request (along with FDOT) for a Federal stimulus TIGER grant....if that doesn't come through, its back to the drawing board.

Prior to the stimulus, the plan has always been to use FDOT funds to build the Transportation Center.

[thelakelander]

The only way he'll delay is if there's a definitive plan in place this month for how shelters will be built and maintained without ads, Blaylock said.

For those who don't like this plan, you better get to work.  You have 20 days.

[stjr]

"I should have realized when JTA said they'd talk to us it was all just lip service," he said.

But it's hard to make a specific proposal, Arpen said, until JTA shares the data on what the maintenance money is needed for maintaining the shelters.

For those who don't like this plan, you better get to work.  You have 20 days.

Lake, how does one come up with a better plan when JTA won't provide basic info or even has a conversation about the subject, with a City Council rep no less.

JTA is being a bully about this and, regardless of your position, you should be concerned as community funds and issues are at stake.  If they play this way this time, next time it could be something you care about that gets steamrolled by their bureaucracy.

For the last (hopefully) time, JTA made a joint request (along with FDOT) for a Federal stimulus TIGER grant....if that doesn't come through, its back to the drawing board.

Prior to the stimulus, the plan has always been to use FDOT funds to build the Transportation Center.

Funny, JTA can get creative finding grants for a new HQ's for its execs to the tune of $60 million, but it can't apply or locate similar grants for a fraction of that amount for bus shelters?  Right.

Also, once JTA builds their gold-plated monument to themselves, how much per year to you think it will cost to operate and maintain it versus their current digs?  That will come out of JTA operating revenues, you think?  And, I bet it will be several times the costs of maintaining all those bus shelters.

The fact is, JTA is playing all kinds of games and lacks adequate scrutiny by outsiders.  BRT, Transportation Center, $ky-high-way, Bus Shelter Ads, Outer Beltway, 9B, lousy bus routes and headways, NO street cars or commuter rail, Dames Point Bridge port limiter due to height and pier placement, etc.  How many boneheaded bad decisions does JTA make or participate in before we say enough is enough.  In fact, I am hard pressed to think of one world class facet of JTA other than their self promotion.  Did I miss anything?

[cline]

The fact is, JTA is playing all kinds of games and lacks adequate scrutiny by outsiders.  BRT, Transportation Center, $ky-high-way, Bus Shelter Ads, Outer Beltway, 9B, lousy bus routes and headways, NO street cars or commuter rail, Dames Point Bridge port limiter due to height and pier placement, etc.  

JTA is not involved in the outer beltway or the 9B project- those are FDOT projects.  In the case of the beltway, it would be an FDOT/PPP.

[fsujax]

I didn't realize JTA was building a gold plated monument to themselves. I think the design actually looks pretty crummy and should be redesigned.

[CS Foltz]

I didn't realize JTA was building a gold plated monument to themselves. I think the design actually looks pretty crummy and should be redesigned.

As I have posed before...............$60 Million Dollars (Phase one cost) is ridiculous! Got access to that kind of for new and improved headquarters but we really need advertising to get more bus shelters up and maintained? What kinda of idiots do they think we are...............I say buy JEA's Bldg downtown,renovate and the cost would be lots less than the $60 Million Dollars of my tax money they want to spend! Incompetent buffoons and their game plans show it!

[tufsu1]

you're at it again CS....what proof do you have that buying and renovating the old JEA HQ could be done for less than $60 million?

and, btw, the $60 million does include re-building portions of the skyway station, adding ground floor retail, and providing some BRT shelters....so, add that into your JEA building estimate for good measure!

[CS Foltz]

tufsu..........your the one that posted the new "Transportation Center" was going to cost us taxpayers $60 Million Dollars for phase one! I know that the old JEA Bldg, downtown by the courthouse, is currently on the market for $11 Million Dollars........so to me quite simple! Bldg renovation would not cost $49 Million Dollars worst case scenario! That is a relatively new Bldg and not old enough to asbestos problems and the like unless the Building Inspectors/Architect were not doing something up to code! Any so-called new Transportation Center does not need to be built from scratch, does not need to eat up valuable downtown realestate or contribute to urban sprawl. Why not use something that is allready built, established footprint, accessible to all? Skyway station does not need to be enhanced, looking at ridership,add ground floor retail at new location and if JTA has access to $60 Million Dollar line of credit, why ain't they building shelters now? JTA still has not produced shelter maintenance numbers as of this morning and I don't think they know what those figures are! So the only thing that will happen at the proposed location is new.............other than that JTA has not meet any management criteria of doing the job correctly, cost effective and they don't deserve new just for the sake of new!

[stjr]

JTA is not involved in the outer beltway or the 9B project- those are FDOT projects.  In the case of the beltway, it would be an FDOT/PPP.

JTA is in bed with both the TPO and FDOT so it would be disingenuous to say they have no involvement in the Outer Beltway and 9A.  JTA is one of 15 voting members of the TPO and FDOT serves ex-officio.  Who doesn't think JTA has a huge influence, maybe even unofficial veto power, on transit projects affecting Duval County.  After all, that is their mission, is it not?

Currently, the TPO has fifteen voting members and five non-voting/ex officio members as listed below.

   * Two Clay County Commissioners
   * One St. Johns County Commissioner
   * One Nassau County Commissioner
   * Mayor, City of Jacksonville
   * Mayor, City of St. Augustine or St. Augustine Beach (rotating)
   * Three Jacksonville City Council Members
   * One Mayor from the Beaches Communities - Atlantic Beach, Neptune Beach or Jacksonville Beach
   * Jacksonville Port Authority Board Member
   * Jacksonville Aviation Authority Board Member
   * Jacksonville Transportation Authority Board Member
   * St. Augustine - St. Johns County Airport Authority Board Member
   * Nassau County Ocean, Highway and Port Authority Board Member
   * Ex officio members include: District 2 Secretary, Florida Department of Transportation; a representative from the U.S. Navy and a representative from the Baker, Flagler and Putnam County Commissions.

[stjr]

I didn't realize JTA was building a gold plated monument to themselves. I think the design actually looks pretty crummy and should be redesigned.

FSU, you are correct.  The design is "crummy".  But, the price is "gold plated".  Just another bad deal for the taxpayers. 

[TheProfessor]

I am glad to see JTA is moving forward with this.  They could talk forever with the people against bus shelters and not get anywhere.  Advertising is the way to go, a reliable, sustainable source of funding. It's a no brainer.

[stjr]

Lest there be any doubt, 9B is even listed on JTA's current project list on their web site:

http://www.jtaonthemove.com/Projects/showPage.aspx?Sel=24

I also note that at least 5 JTA people were at the March 28, 2007, First Coast Outer Beltway Industry Forum including its CEO, Mr. Blaylock, and Cleve Warren, Board Chair.  That's pretty heavy duty interest for a "non-JTA" project.

http://www.fdotfirstcoastouterbeltway.com/forum_docs/Industry%20Forum%20Attendees%203-28-2007.pdf

[stjr]

They could talk forever with the people against bus shelters and not get anywhere.  

Professor, stop spinning this.  No one I know of is against bus shelters.  You are trying to demonize those opposed to the advertising model.  That's what's wrong with debating issues in public nowadays.  People don't debate the issues, they personally attack those who differ.  That is hardly a constructive way to engage in meaningful discourse.  Let's try raising the bar here.

[CS Foltz]

I have to question just how advertising on the shelters will be sustainable and reliable? Size and type of shelters are still up in the air and JTA still have not come up figures for the maintenance end! This worries me to no end!