State Rd 9B

[stjr]

I can't wait for all those road-happy St. Johns and Clay residents to run into those 3 million container cargo trucks, Ock.  They think they will have this road and the Outer Beltway all to themselves.

Once again, roads aren't the solution to commuter problems, mass transit is.  It's just when, not if.  That's how I see the vision for the next 50 years. 

The sooner, the better.

[Ocklawaha]

I can't wait for all those road-happy St. Johns and Clay residents to run into those 3 million container cargo trucks, Ock.  They think they will have this road and the Outer Beltway all to themselves.

Once again, roads aren't the solution to commuter problems, mass transit is.  It's just when, not if.  That's how I see the vision for the next 50 years. 

The sooner, the better.

"Delta is ready when you are."  The rest of us will have to play catch up, one of the reasons why my needs to be done list, (most of which appeared in Progressive Railroading Magazine - A Blueprint For Jacksonville, last year) is short on highways is the lack of need for more outward expansion. Where we need work both within and outside of the urban area roads, are mostly small projects.  The fact is, the only new segments would be the port gateway road from Talleyrand North to Hecksher, where a highway/rail bridge would really help. Other then that some ramps, flyovers, lane projects and a very small segment of I-795, which according to Hoyle, doesn't even need an exit between 9-A (I-295), 9-B (I-795) and I-95 South.

We also have some small filler type work we could do near the urban center to make the current road system more user friendly. Matthews to I-95, Commodore Point Expressway to Southside, with limited access and service roads to JTB, Shand's Bridge, Emerson Connector, Streetlights on the expressways...etc.

Keep an eye on the "Florida-Georgia Parkway," a long forgotten expressway from the 1960's planned by Southern States, to tie Kansas City and Jax. Today some segments are done, Georgia, is about to launch on the South Georgia portion, Albany - Columbus area, and Albany - Valdosta. Meanwhile the whole of Birmingham - Memphis - Springfield - Kansas City, is becoming I-22. Somehow we seem to have forgotten the project, and I-22 is now pointing toward Savannah, while the dead end of the Parkway is aimed at Valdosta/I-75. Because of grain movements and Powder River Coal from WY, we'd be foolish to ignore this as an opportunity for industrial and port gain.

Everything else is public transportation, transit, pure and simple.

OCKLAWAHA

[Charles Hunter]

Ock - looking at GoogleMaps - it seems your Talleyrand extension to Heckscher would either go thru the Zoo or Gate's concrete facility.  Good luck with that.

Mathews to I-95?  Making State/Union expressways? Elevated on top of or between them?

And doesn't making it easier to get around by car within the city make it harder for transit to make inroads (sorry).

[Ocklawaha]

Ock - looking at GoogleMaps - it seems your Talleyrand extension to Heckscher would either go thru the Zoo or Gate's concrete facility.  Good luck with that.

Mathews to I-95?  Making State/Union expressways? Elevated on top of or between them?

And doesn't making it easier to get around by car within the city make it harder for transit to make inroads (sorry).

Boy it didn't take you long to bite on this one my friend! Right through the middle of civic minded GATE CONCRETE, 4 lanes of shimmering highway, as far as the eye can see! Truth is, there was a railroad bridge (ACL) that crossed there which is why if you look at the aerials you can see the right of way, and the extension into the Trout from the northside. I think it would be doable without really upsetting the balance too much, lots of empty space on the north of their current yard.

Remember that "wasteland" between USG, and the old Phosphate Terminal is going to be a huge bulk facility for Keystone, COLOMBIAN COAL. It's bad enough that we have tank farms, chemical tank trucks, gypsum, and paper loads on Buffalo Avenue or Evergreen, Just imagine when it's all developed out!

Not State and Union, I would more or less create a funnel to shift northbound and northwest bound Matthews and Hart traffic up the MLK, Spiff up the Arlington Expressway into State and Union, and knock down the ramps all through the stadium area (Hart) providing transit lanes and surface parkways.

On the last question, it's a yes and no answer. IF we really see 3 million containers pouring out of the Port, we better have some major road fixes in place. If the Port falters, then not so important, consider also that every new or improved roadway can be made over with transit built in. Simple economics of expensive fuel will drive down the auto traffic, at the same time a few well chosen cutoff's, ramps, and flyovers, could save us a bunch of fuel. Considering that highways don't move people from point A to B, they move autos.

OCKLAWAHA

[Charles Hunter]

Good answers.
And I am sure Gate would just donate the land!    Perhaps in exchange for an exclusive contract to supply all the concrete for all these projects! 

[British Shoe Company]

9B is not a pie in the sky project.  Why do educated people think it's not going to be constructed.  If anyone has a way to improve it, share it with the Metro Jax members, and the powers that be.  If suggestions are taken, and acted on,  you can go down in history as the "Man who made 9B better"

If you want to profit from 9B, open a Hot Dog stand to feed the workers building it!

[north miami]

"Florida-Georgia Parkway"- John Delaney made brief mention during his term....perfectly timed during major public fear event;hurricane threat and hope for government 'answer' to saving ourselves and key 'driver' behind so many road proposals....'evacuation'.

Reviewing these posts and the common reference to 'evacuation' reminds me of the need to evacuate (...leave the region...) sooner than later.

[tufsu1]

The Florida Georgia Parkway already exists...its called US 19 or Georgia 300

And I highly doubt there will be a new interstate in SW Georgia....although GDOT does have a feasibility study underway

[Ocklawaha]

The Florida Georgia Parkway already exists...its called US 19 or Georgia 300

And I highly doubt there will be a new interstate in SW Georgia....although GDOT does have a feasibility study underway

You might be too young to recall the 1960's proposals, maps, etc... on this "first ever" multimodal interstate - railroad - pipeline - utilities (which today would be fiber optics) corridor. There were several major announcements and articles, I recall Charles Hunter (I think), and I spoke about it a couple of times, and he too recalled seeing the articles. This was to be a Southern State Thing of some sort to link the Port of Jacksonville, with Kansas City, via an airline style route.

My contention is, of ALL of the stupid, smart, middle ground, so - so, cool, dumb, etc... ideas to pop up for Jacksonville roadways and multimodalism, this was a gem. If it was Charles that mentioned he recalled it, I searched for days for some reference and couldn't find a damn thing, I believe he had the same experience. Wonder if the TU has something?? STEPHENDARE? Where are you?

I recently drove the whole route, most of which is now with big loud signs that say, "FUTURE I-22 CORRIDOR" or "FLORIDA - GEORGIA PARKWAY" or both! It is a beautiful expressway from Memphis-Birmingham. Also from about Springfield - 20 miles or so into North Arkansas, some fantastic Ozark scenes. Mammoth Springs, is well worth the stop, check out the park and history museum.

THIS is really the only major expressway type highway I would get on a chair and cheer for! It would just make us the most friendly export terminal on the entire Atlantic Seaboard for American grains. The route includes miles on miles of rice, wheat, and some corn, slate, lead, limestone, lumber, Mississippi Riverport items from Memphis, Iron and Steel, peaches and Mellon's. Jaxport would simply explode with growth.

Tufsu1, Charles, let me know if y'all or Lakelander, find any shed of information on this project. The other missing project, was in the time of private passenger trains, a concept the DOT called AUTO-TRAIN which they wanted to experiment with between Jacksonville and New York, Chicago, Atlanta, etc... I think we all know what happened to that dream, it followed Mickey. 

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Ock, this was interesting to find under possible future interstates in a Wikipedia article.  Doesn't look like the folks in Alabama or Georgia (supporting the Savannah port!) are asleep at the wheel.

Congressionally designated future Interstates

Main article: Interstate 22

Interstate 22 is the new number for current US 78 between Memphis, Tennessee, and Birmingham, Alabama. Most of the freeway has been built. Signage has been installed designating it as a future Interstate as of 2005[update], and completion is expected by 2011, with the final interchange being built with the highways I-65 and US 31 in Birmingham by 2012. This is expected to be the largest and most expensive highway interchange in Alabama with over 14 different bridges. When complete, Birmingham will be designated as a control city for four Interstate routes (20, 22, 59 and 65).

Other proposals

Main article: Interstate 3

The 3rd Infantry Division Highway was proposed in the 2005 highway funding bill (Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act: A Legacy for Users) to run from Savannah, Georgia, north via Augusta, to Knoxville, Tennessee. Although the corridor has not been designated by law or any official body as a proposed Interstate, Interstate 3 is its popular name.[6] This number does not fit into the Interstate Highway numbering system, but matches the name chosen to honor the US Army Third Infantry Division. The proposed highway faces local opposition from groups like Stop I-3.

Main article: Interstate 14

The 14th Amendment Highway was proposed in the 2005 highway funding bill (Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act: A Legacy for Users) to run from Augusta, Georgia, through Macon, Columbus, Montgomery, Meridian, Jackson to end in Natchez, Mississippi or Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Although the corridor has not been designated by law or any official body as a proposed Interstate, Interstate 14 is its popular name.[6] This number fits into the Interstate Highway numbering system, and matches the name chosen to honor the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Interstate_Highways#Interstate_22

[reednavy]

Ugh the I-65 and I-22 junction is an absolute f*cking nightmare and mess right now.

Also, can we just continue the numbering system in use right now, and not this in honor or crap. I-22 makes sense, being between I-20/59 and I-24. I-3, that makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

[Ocklawaha]

Ock, this was interesting to find under possible future interstates in a Wikipedia article.  Doesn't look like the folks in Alabama or Georgia (supporting the Savannah port!) are asleep at the wheel.

Congressionally designated future Interstates

Main article: Interstate 22

Interstate 22 is the new number for current US 78 between Memphis, Tennessee, and Birmingham, Alabama. Most of the freeway has been built. Signage has been installed designating it as a future Interstate as of 2005[update], and completion is expected by 2011, with the final interchange being built with the highways I-65 and US 31 in Birmingham by 2012. This is expected to be the largest and most expensive highway interchange in Alabama with over 14 different bridges. When complete, Birmingham will be designated as a control city for four Interstate routes (20, 22, 59 and 65).

Other proposals

Main article: Interstate 3

The 3rd Infantry Division Highway was proposed in the 2005 highway funding bill (Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act: A Legacy for Users) to run from Savannah, Georgia, north via Augusta, to Knoxville, Tennessee. Although the corridor has not been designated by law or any official body as a proposed Interstate, Interstate 3 is its popular name.[6] This number does not fit into the Interstate Highway numbering system, but matches the name chosen to honor the US Army Third Infantry Division. The proposed highway faces local opposition from groups like Stop I-3.

Main article: Interstate 14

The 14th Amendment Highway was proposed in the 2005 highway funding bill (Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act: A Legacy for Users) to run from Augusta, Georgia, through Macon, Columbus, Montgomery, Meridian, Jackson to end in Natchez, Mississippi or Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Although the corridor has not been designated by law or any official body as a proposed Interstate, Interstate 14 is its popular name.[6] This number fits into the Interstate Highway numbering system, and matches the name chosen to honor the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Interstate_Highways#Interstate_22

Exactly stjr, that's why this old article or series of articles and a bunch of hype are so under me skin! WTF did we do to suddenly vanish off the radar? Savannah? Really? JaxPort and COJ should cozy up to GADOT and ALDOT, do whatever the hell it takes to get this back the way it was originally announced... Then again, NONE OF US can find any trace of the original announcements. Keep in mind this was an EARLY MultiModal concept corridor, maybe one of the first.

OCKLAWAHA

[north miami]

Florida-Georgia Parkway

What great positioning,employing the term "Parkway"

In today's world it is much more difficult to draw a line across a wide swath on a map and create such a facility.

Clay county/Reinhold Corp. attempts at such is case in point only referenced here due to proximity and recent (predictive) events- consider the long established route, a graceful arc, as established matter of public record/comp plan maps relative to what the meandering "preferred"/"selected" route is,or might be.And Reinhold attempts to staighten out the meander by commimg back to the Ravines,which have become coveted state conservation lands,failed despite high end pressure tactics.
Or consider another varient of the "Beltway"-at one time morphed in to Jax/Tampa...Gainesville area community and environmental interests fought the proposal - public hearings then shifted towards Palatka,which gave the project the expected warm embrace.....however the roadway was no longer oriented on the compass rose towards....Tampa.

It would be interesting to see a Florida-Georgia Parkway proposal impact Florida Times Union's Ron Littlepage place in Georgia....put the median right through the deer stand and see the FTU address a road proposal like never before.

We take a stand according to where we sit. 'NIMBY' is appropriate- the problem for the road builders is there are now so many back Yards.It's called 'growth'.You got it!

"It seems evident that none of the present models of public policy development provide the continuity,wide responsivness,and regard for all relevant information that is required for governance,nor do they often fully utilize sources of relevant information"   L.K.Caldwell "People Pressure and Environmental Consequences
                              ************     1 9 8 5    ***********

Onward
P.S.- Clay county,WITHOUT CONSOLODATED FORM OF GOVERNMENT, sure was 'bold' and 'visionary' in 'county wide application' (Rick Mullaney's terms) with it's early 70's beltway promotion.Of course related was Gulfstream/Argyle on the Clay-Duval border.

[tufsu1]

There were lots of projects called for in the SAFETEA-LU legislation that will never happen....and I am pretty darn sure that I-3 and I-14 are two of them!

As for I-22, parts of it will be built....but the connection from Birmingahm to Jacksonville will show very little demand....what is needed is a connection between I-10 and I-65 in the Florida panhandle.

[British Shoe Company]

It will be so nice to get  from point A. to point B., and all points in between without red lights, and stop signs.  I cannot wait until it's done.  I know it will take a while, just like 9A.  It will help property values too!