Why, in the Name of God, is the MPO supporting the city killing Outer Beltway?

[BridgeTroll]

Lake... Are there links to the maps?  I would be interested in looking more closely at them.

[thelakelander]

Here you go.

http://www.firstcoastmpo.com/envision2035/docs/Alternative%20Scenarios.pdf

[stjr]

Trend Scenario:

It's clear from these drawings that the quickest way to get from the Outer Beltway and I-10 to the Outer Beltway and I-95 or vice versa is to just stay on I-10 to I-95 through downtown.  The direct route is superior to the inner (I-295) beltway as well.

Thus, the only reason to build this as a beltway is to (1) bypass congestion, if any, because the higher speeds make up for the time lost taking the longer distance or (2) to open up more land for urban sprawl.

With respect to congestion, it isn't severe enough to justify these very long detours or their expense.  And, if said traffic is deemed to be "congested", we could solve the problem, as mentioned repeatedly, by other means (such as rail or bus mass transit) for a lot less money and with a far more favorable impact on our environment and quality of life.

As to urban sprawl, we certainly don't need anymore of that.  This takes us in the wrong direction by far.

So, from a REGIONAL standpoint, aside from a bridge crossing, why build this snake of a road?

What's wrong with middle and southern Clay and St. Johns counties remaining a "playground" for Jax's urbanites? There are great jobs and quality of life in relying on rural and eco tourism.  Play up boating, fishing, hunting, hiking, photography tours, wildlife observations, kayaking and canoeing, beaches, water skiing, surfing, horseback riding, roadside produce stands, farm visits, airboats, country fairs, weekend getaways, etc. etc.

[cline]

What's wrong with middle and southern Clay and St. Johns counties remaining a "playground" for Jax's urbanites? There are great jobs and quality of life in relying on rural and eco tourism.  Play up boating, fishing, hunting, hiking, photography tours, wildlife observations, kayaking and canoeing, beaches, water skiing, surfing, horseback riding, roadside produce stands, farm visits, airboats, country fairs, weekend getaways, etc. etc.

The problem with this idea is that there are not enough jobs of this type to support the population and projected population in Clay County.  Thus, the majority of Clay residents commute to Duval County for work, creating the traffic issues we are currently experiencing.  From an economic development standpoint I think it would be beneficial to promote more job growth in Clay to help cut down on the out of county home-based work trips.  A starter commuter rail line wouldn't hurt either. 

[stjr]

What's wrong with middle and southern Clay and St. Johns counties remaining a "playground" for Jax's urbanites? There are great jobs and quality of life in relying on rural and eco tourism.  Play up boating, fishing, hunting, hiking, photography tours, wildlife observations, kayaking and canoeing, beaches, water skiing, surfing, horseback riding, roadside produce stands, farm visits, airboats, country fairs, weekend getaways, etc. etc.

The problem with this idea is that there are not enough jobs of this type to support the population and projected population in Clay County.  Thus, the majority of Clay residents commute to Duval County for work, creating the traffic issues we are currently experiencing.  From an economic development standpoint I think it would be beneficial to promote more job growth in Clay to help cut down on the out of county home-based work trips.  A starter commuter rail line wouldn't hurt either. 

Cline, I understand, but then Clay just becomes another Jacksonville and the process repeats itself with people surrounding it, e.g. Putnam County, wanting their own jobs.  At what point do we draw a line and say, if you want to live close to a job, give up the car, live in higher density, and take mass transit.  To think differently, is to feed urban sprawl.  There are limits and the sooner we recognize this, the better.

Separately, of the four options on the FCMPO web site, clearly "D" is my choice, although I would prefer it without the outer beltway.  Again, we need to start planning the region for mass transit or we will "pave ourselves to death", literally!

[tufsu1]

again, the Outer Beltway was taken as a given...along with every other project that is considered "committed"....meaning construction within the next 5 years.

9B would have also been shown but it has been bumped out of the 5-year window because of the state's budget problems....

It doesn't mean that everyone agrees with the projects....just that these were the parameters of the study.

And I think Lake can tell you that a significant amopunt of potential transit projects were shown with Scenario "D"....if this all goes through, it will be a huge leap forward for Jax....no LRTP before has shown even one major transit project.

[stjr]

And I think Lake can tell you that a significant amopunt of potential transit projects were shown with Scenario "D"....if this all goes through, it will be a huge leap forward for Jax....no LRTP before has shown even one major transit project.

So tufsu, if you were handicapping this, what are the relative probabilities of each scenario being adopted? ...and then, actually implemented/adhered to?

[tufsu1]

Before this week, I would have told you that Alt. D had about a 25% chance...now I think its closer to 50%...now, actually having all the local governments modify their comp. plans to match it...and then adhere to it....chances of that are about zero!

But even the trend scenario supports some transit and I think its very likely that commuter rail will make it into the Needs Plan regardless....whether it all ends up being cost-fasible is another issue.