$ky-high-way POLL: Pick it's fate (or your poison)!

[stjr]

OK, folks.  You get one choice.  Pick it and live with it. 

[Ocklawaha]

I think your poll would be much more effective if you approached it with an open mind. Questions such as:

"I understand the new MPO City planning consultants have recommended finishing the Skyway."
"I understand that the original Skyway didn't cost $100 Million a mile, that most of the expense was in the support system, high tech maintenance facility, electronics, etc. If it can be expanded at a price near that of BRT Quickway or LRT, then lets finish it."
"I understand the JTA consultants from Gannet Flemming felt that the Skyway would nearly guarantee the success of rail at Jacksonville Terminal, and thus we should carefully consider how to expand it."
"Realizing that the Skyway is as much a complete system as 1/2 of an automobile would be a complete car, it's high time to complete it."

Without some balance, your poll cannot be taken seriously.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Ock, there is no bias.  I got you covered.  Even though I said only one answer, you picked two:

(1)  Let's go for DOUBLE OR NOTHING.  I don't give a damn about history or proven failure.  Let' double our bet by expanding the system and hope people chose it over other transportation options that are better and cheaper  and

(2) Grow this monster!  Expand it because I believe those same experts who screwed the original projections up by 90%.  They can't possibly be wrong twice!  I have faith.

See...this is where the fun begins.  Pick your poison 

Thanks for participating.

P.S. Ock, I took my cue from your railroad survey (which I dutifully completed sans the $ky-high-way question!)  I thought your questions led the survey taker right to where you wanted to take them.  Don't I get an A+ for learning the craft?

[thelakelander]

The poll is kind of geared towards the negative end.  Thus, the only one that was close enough to my view was:

Only expand it if it comes after all other rail mass transit including street cars, light rail, and suburban rail.

I do believe its best to move forward first with a cheaper rail system that can complement the skyway by stretching rail into areas outside of downtown.  However, I'm not ready to say that no expansion possibilities should be considered until all long range regional rail plans are implemented.  For example, assuming something eventually rises on the Brooklyn Park site, it would make sense to construct a station at the existing operations center on Riverside Av.  Although the track is already there, building a station would be considered expansion.

[Charles Hunter]

Say, stjr, have you stopped beating little kittens?  Yes or No are your only choices¹

And, what the thelakelander said.


¹ What? That's not a fair question?   

[BridgeTroll]

Not sure why I voted since everything that could be wrong with a poll is encompassed in this one...

[Shwaz]

I think your poll would be much more effective if you approached it with an open mind

Seriously! This poll sucks.

[Deuce]

I'm not voting on this mess of a poll. Could we have real polls on this board?

[Cliffs_Daughter]

I voted for the one that would never ever happen.
And I really don't want it to, but if we're not yet investing in the light rail option from NAS Jax to downtown, then at least make someone think.

[thelakelander]

Since the corridor already has existing tracks, it would not make sense to spend hundreds of millions building an electrified light rail line parallel.  It would be like spending billions to build dedicated busways next to the tracks.  However, using the existing tracks with commuter rail can be equally effective for this stretch at a fraction of the cost.  Fortunately, this is one of the corridors JTA has been studying the commuter rail.  Its also one that can benefit from the implementation of an Amtrak statewide corridor service.  Given the congestion issues in Clay County, excellent track conditions and the potential of freight reduction due to Sunrail (Orlando's plan), it should probably be one of the first regional rail corridors to come online.

[stjr]

Say, stjr, have you stopped beating little kittens?  Yes or No are your only choices¹

And, what the thelakelander said.


¹ What? That's not a fair question?  

I'm not voting on this mess of a poll. Could we have real polls on this board?

I think your poll would be much more effective if you approached it with an open mind

Seriously! This poll sucks.

Not sure why I voted since everything that could be wrong with a poll is encompassed in this one...

Well, I see people with a sense of humor are all over this board - NOT!  Lighten up people.  This poll is a tongue in cheek farce about all the positions being taken on MJ regarding the $ky-high-way (i.e. using humor to make a point).  I thought I made that pretty obvious with the way I wrote it but I guess subtle (I actually thought it was not-so-subtle) humor isn't supported here.

The poll was intended to highlight what I felt was the blind support for this project just because it exists - not because it is a worthwhile venture.  The poll was meant to show, through humor, how the justifications being given look when cast in a different light.  All the answers I offered are mostly humorous embellishments of a justification offered somewhere along the way by a MJ poster.  If one has trouble picking an answer in the poll, maybe they need to rethink why they think expansion is justified. That's my point. 

P.S.  Opinions to the contrary given in a manner stilted toward only showing imagined benefits of the $ky-high-way without revealing its other options or extraordinary costs are akin to what most of the postings on MJ have been.  This just swings the pendulum back the other way.

[thelakelander]

Stjr, so what is your response to 78% of the majority of the votes suggesting expansion at some point in the future?

[Tripoli1711]

Right, I think the key thing there is "at some point in the future".  There can be no denying that the Skyway has been an albatross from day one and has never lived up to any expectations.  That being said, I have always felt it could still be very valuable in the future.  No need to throw the baby out with the bath water.  A lot of the issues here are convincing some people that its OK to use public transportation- it's not just for poor or dirty people.  I had a friend who worked in the Stein-Mart building and I was going to meet him at Hemming Plaza to go to lunch a few times.  He would bemoan how to park around there and I kept telling him "just hop on the skyway, what is it, a buck? 50 cents? just ride that."  He would never even consider it.  Most residents of the city don't have a public transportation mindset.. it will take a while.  But with practical and useful services in place, I am convinced that its just getting them to take that first step on the train and they'll be hooked.  The Skyway can work in time, just not this present time.

[thelakelander]

I'm one of the few who believe people in Jacksonville are no different from those in most of America, when it comes to mass transit.  The main problem I see is that Jax has poor transit service.  While you'll never get most people to use transit, if the service was efficient and reliable, ridership numbers would increase from their present state.

[Shwaz]

That's why I like the skyway and expansion idea. It is reliable and efficient. I think the overall impression of the skyway is that it is clean. IMO the general consensus thinks that buses are dirty, unreliable and
inefficient... which is partly true.