Many in Florida applaud end to stem-cell ban

[BridgeTroll]

That you refer to this as a silly argument shows you hold little regard for opposing views in this matter.

[Sportmotor]

To be honest you both are very hardheaded on this subject 

[NotNow]

This was a government decision, just as it was a government decision when President Bush limited federal funding to existing lines.  "The People" didn't vote on this issue, neither did our representatives.  But all of that is beside the point now.  I do support sex education, as do most people, the disagreement of course comes from what that education consist of and when it is given.  That is a discussion for another thread.  

I mentioned the abortion quandary not as a part of this debate, but as another example of an ethics decision that I am not in danger of suffering great personal loss from.  Faye is obviously concerned about the well being of her son, thus her view of the ethics in this case is very personal.  I am simply pointing out that while I am personally opposed to abortion, I recognize that a pregnant 16 year old girl has a much more personal stake in the debate.

While we all want to minimize the deaths or tragic circumstances of others, it is not reasonable to use human deaths as an argument in such a matter.  How many lives could be saved by outlawing alcohol?  By setting the national speed limit to 40 mph?  By rationing types and portions of food?  And the lists goes on and on.  This is a public policy and ethics debate.  This is not the last time we will do this over bio-engineering.  A reasonable standard must be reached eventually.

[BridgeTroll]

To be honest you both are very hardheaded on this subject 

The difference is... I dont think his justification or rational is silly.  Just wrong.

[Sportmotor]

To be honest you both are very hardheaded on this subject 

The difference is... I dont think his justification or rational is silly.  Just wrong.

and you have explained and backed your oppion with Hard Facts and not hypotheticals stating why you feel this way so strongly?

[BridgeTroll]

The piece Faye left off her article says it pretty well...

Those opposed to fetal tissue research have made a number of arguments against the use of fetuses from elective abortions. Morally opposed to abortion itself, they argue that the fetal tissue researcher is complicit in the destruction of the fetus and that fetal tissue research will create incentives for more abortions. Moreover, they maintain that a woman who has an abortion cannot legally authorize research on the aborted fetus because she has abandoned her parental responsibility through the act of abortion. They also argue that fetal tissue research can and should be restricted to fetuses from spontaneous abortions and ectopic pregnancies.

[Sportmotor]

Id like to see a work cited argument from both sides to be honest
*goes back to lurking*

[BridgeTroll]

Go back and read post #19 there Sport... wayyy ahead of ya.

[Sigma]

I'm not opposed to the research, but I found this article interesting. 

Decades Away: The Dirty Secret of Embryonic Stem Cell Research

"But quadriplegics probably shouldn't sign up for the New York City Marathon just yet. If these cures are just around the corner, this corner is far, far away. And that's according to ES cell researchers and funding advocates themselves. The time frame for the first of those miracles seems routinely to be given as a "decade," as in "a decade away" or "a decade off." And it keeps shifting."

http://www.fumento.com/biotech/stemcell2009.html

[FayeforCure]

I'm not opposed to the research, but I found this article interesting. 

Decades Away: The Dirty Secret of Embryonic Stem Cell Research

"But quadriplegics probably shouldn't sign up for the New York City Marathon just yet. If these cures are just around the corner, this corner is far, far away. And that's according to ES cell researchers and funding advocates themselves. The time frame for the first of those miracles seems routinely to be given as a "decade," as in "a decade away" or "a decade off." And it keeps shifting."

http://www.fumento.com/biotech/stemcell2009.html

Sigma, glad you are not opposed to the research. fumento is a conservatuve with questionable reputation on science issues.

Fumento describes himself as a political conservative.[7] He has drawn criticism from liberal and veterans' activist groups for his views on Gulf War Syndrome

My son and I are well aware that he may live his entire life imprisoned in a body that doesn't work for him,.......what we will NEVER accept is for cells to be trashed when these cells could be recycled for use in research that could hold recovery,........so the life he knew can be restored.

[FayeforCure]

Nobel Prize Winner Elizabeth Blackburn Was An Outspoken Opponent Of Bush’s Politicization Of Science
Yesterday, three American scientists â€" Elizabeth Blackburn, Carol Greider, and Jack Szostak â€" were awarded the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for their contributions to the study of cell biology in a way that positively impacts our understanding of cancer and aging.

One of the stories not being covered about the Nobel winners is that one of them, Australian-American researcher Elizabeth Blackburn, played a “brave role” in exposing the Bush administration’s anti-science policies, particularly with respect to blocking embryonic stem cell research.

Shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attack, Blackburn was appointed a member of the “President’s Council of Bioethics,” the body charged with “advising the President on ethical issues related to advances in biomedical science and technology.” “Like everyone during that time, I wanted to do something, anything,” she told the press.

An “outspoken advocate” for embryonic stem cell research, Blackburn objected to President Bush’s position on the issue, which was to veto legislation that would have freed up federal funding for it. While the council is supposed to exist to provide a variety of views to the President on a whole host of bioethics issues, Blackburn soon found that under the Bush administration, “scientific research…[was] being manipulated for political ends.”

Eventually, the Bush administration decided that it would no longer tolerate Blackburn’s dissent. On Feb. 27, 2004, the administration dismissed Blackburn and another dissident scientist, Dr. William May, from the council. Dean Clancy, the executive director of the council, maintained that politics had nothing to do with her dismissal, telling the press, “The charge that she was let go because of her policy views is utterly without merit.”

Yet scientists around the country were not convinced. Following her dismissal, more than 170 researchers sent an open letter to the President protesting the decision. Janet Rowley, University of Chicago medical professor and fellow council member, told USA Today that she agreed with the researchers that Blackburn was fired for her views, “Liz is an important example of the absolutely destructive practices of the Bush administration.”

For her part, Blackburn said that she didn’t “feel martyred.” Rather, she said she saw her dismissal as “a badge of honor.” Following her firing, she wrote a scathing indictment of her time on the council in the New England Annals of Medicine, writing that science should be “protected from the influence of politics“:

As a naturalized citizen of the United States, I have an immigrant’s love for my country. But our country must not fail us. Scientific advice should and must be protected from the influence of politics. Will the President’s Council on Bioethics be up to that challenge?

Blackburn will receive one-third of the $1.4 million prize granted to the trio of researchers. She is the first Australian woman to ever win the Nobel Prize.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/10/06/elizabeth-blackburn-bush/

[FayeforCure]

Frontline: Belated progress made on stem cells       
by Editorial Staff     
Friday, October 23, 2009 
George W. Bush may no longer be president, but his policies blocking stem cell research in the U.S. still loom over the head of Bellingham resident and Whatcom Community College student Erik Gelhar.


Gelhar has been diagnosed with heart failure and will be seeking treatment in Germany that involves using stem cells from his body to try and stabilize his heart.


The procedure is currently unavailable in the U.S. Perhaps that is because former President Bush severely limited stem cell research during his termâ€"perhaps not. However, Bush’s policies have slowed down the development of this important medical field in the U.S. If American citizens must travel overseas in order to get medical procedures that could and should be available in this country, there is a problem.


Much of the controversy about stem cells rises from the fact that the most versatile stem cells, the ones that can be coaxed into forming any manner of body tissue, come from human embryos. Extracting stem cells from embryos does cause their destructionâ€"an upsetting fact for many people. But they should stop to consider that many thousands more embryos are discarded or kept in cold storage by fertility clinics, according to the Time Magazine article “The false controversy of stem cells.”

It is not criminal to use embryonic stem cells for medical procedures that can save lives. It is criminal to allow such cells to go to waste.


Fortunately for Gelhar and other U.S. citizens, President Obama has more foresight then his predecessor, at least on this issue. On March 9, 2009 he lifted the restriction on federal funding of stem cell research. According to the Reuters article “Obama lifts Bush restrictions on stem cell research,” the National Institutes of Health was given time to review the guidelines concerning the research and recommend new approaches.


The U.S. needs a new direction with stem cells. If citizens must travel to Europe for treatments involving these versatile little cells, what does that say about this country’s competitive edge in science and medical technology? In the midst of an economic recession, America must fine-tune its expertise in fields that establish it as a global leader.     


Stem cells are going to be an important part of the effort to remain competitive and advance research that has the potential to be enormously beneficial. It’s good news that their neglect by the federal government is at an end.


Gelhar is not without support however. A benefit concert will be held in his honor at 8 p.m. Friday Oct. 23, at the Nightlight Lounge. Five dollars is the suggested donation, and bands such as Black Breath and Heiress will play. The concert benefits will go toward Gelhar’s medical bills in Germany. 


Student and community members who think a community should recieve the help he needs should attend the concert Friday and give their support. Those who want to see stem cell research progress in the United States should let their representatives know by calling or mailing in their opinions.

http://westernfrontonline.net/2009102311460/frontline/frontline-belated-progress-made-on-stem-cells/

[BridgeTroll]

George W. Bush may no longer be president, but his policies blocking stem cell research in the U.S. still loom over the head of Bellingham resident and Whatcom Community College student Erik Gelhar.


Gelhar has been diagnosed with heart failure and will be seeking treatment in Germany that involves using stem cells from his body to try and stabilize his heart.


The procedure is currently unavailable in the U.S. Perhaps that is because former President Bush severely limited stem cell research during his termâ€"

Bush never blocked stem cell research... he blocked creating new lines of EMBRYONIC stem cell research.  Gigantic and huge difference.  Ya gotta know the difference Faye.  You also have to understand why. 

He didnt hate parapalegics, or folks with disease, he was not against advancement of cures for these problems.  He had a moral and ethical objection to the dissection and destruction of human embryo for research.  He... and many others think by allowing this to happen you are letting an insidious genie out of the bottle... cracking open a door that will only open wider.  There are very likely going to be unintended consequenses.  He did not want to be part of that.

[FayeforCure]

George W. Bush may no longer be president, but his policies blocking stem cell research in the U.S. still loom over the head of Bellingham resident and Whatcom Community College student Erik Gelhar.


Gelhar has been diagnosed with heart failure and will be seeking treatment in Germany that involves using stem cells from his body to try and stabilize his heart.


The procedure is currently unavailable in the U.S. Perhaps that is because former President Bush severely limited stem cell research during his termâ€"

He (Bush) didnt hate parapalegics, or folks with disease, he was not against advancement of cures for these problems.

He had a moral and ethical objection to the dissection and destruction of human embryo for research. 

Hmmmm, but Bush had no moral or ethical objection to throwing embryos by the thousands in the trash at fertility clinics nationwide. Go figure.

As the article states:

It is not criminal to use embryonic stem cells for medical procedures that can save lives. It is criminal to allow such cells to go to waste.

[BridgeTroll]

Hmmmm, but Bush had no moral or ethical objection to throwing embryos by the thousands in the trash at fertility clinics nationwide.

How do you come up with this??  I bet he does have objections to this.  Can you provide a quote or source that Bush thinks these embryos should be thrown in the trash?  Cmon Faye.....