Where's that Super Bowl Spirit?

[thelakelander]

Great shots!  Thanks for sharing.

[02roadking]

Thanks...
I almost forgot, Happy Birthday BG

[stjr]

Too bad Charleston Native already posted that exact link in this thread three days ago.

Yes, good find, stjr. ;-)

(I'm just sticking up for the guy cause I know what it's like to make a post and have the credit go to someone else later...lol)

Apoloiges, I missed that one.  It's hard to tell from the link unless you click on what story it is.  I click on many but miss a few when rushed.  Interesting that the intro to the link can make a difference as to whether it gets pursued apparently.  Everyone seems to have a different "hot button" 

[vicupstate]

Vic, it is only because you adhere to an obsession with preservation that you think the city is doing great. You refer to the state of the city address; I'll refer to the numerous articles indicating an almost successful incorporation of a pseudo-town (James Island), the port of Chas losing one of its primary shipping companies (Maersk), West Ashley's retail area still void of redevelopment (Citadel Mall falling apart) while N. Charleston is aggressively expanding with Watson Hill and planning new retail centers, and continuous flooding downtown despite the promises made years ago. And I never said he was comparable to Thurmond completely, I said he was beginning to.

Evidently, you are walking lockstep with the environmentalist whackos of the CCL who prefer moving traffic through established neighborhoods rather than listening to the working people of Chas who have been screaming for years to finish the beltway. If zoning is enforced, suburban development can be minimized...oh, it is interesting to note that neighborhoods and shopping centers are being built on Johns Island EVEN WITHOUT I-526 BEING BUILT. So I guess it makes sense to not build a beltway even if it ISN'T encouraging suburban development? 

You need to read up on the SPA. It is a state agency in terms of governance, but it is a quasi-business, meaning that it is not publically funded. It is also NOT HQ'd in Cola; the SPA HQ is on Concord Street in downtown Chas. Groseclose, the CEO, has just resigned, but he was hamstrung by NIMBYs, the ILA (union) the CCL, and state bureaucrats. These entities have prevented Chas from getting the Global Gateway terminal as well as another essential north/south interstate, plus they have interfered with the current terminal that is trying to be built on the Navy base.

Since I don't have much time, here's an article that many of you may find interesting...it shows that Charleston's real competitor for port business could be good old Jacksonville: http://www.charleston.net/news/2009/feb/02/jacksonville_wants_piece_containerport_action/

I support conservation and preservation when it is logical to do so.  I support the new hotel at Marion Square, which as you know stalwart preservationist oppose.   That said, I support their cause in large measure, because they created the wonderful city that is there. 

You support development in EVERY instance over either natural or historic preservation.  No, I am not willing to sacrifice historic structures for a Taco Bell, that can just as easily go elsewhere, or even go in the historic structure.       

The residents of John's Island overwhelmingly oppose the extention of I-526.  Likewise so do many Charlestonians elsewhere.  The Seabrook/Kiawah Islanders are the only ones monolithicly  in favor of it.  After a half century of sprawl run amok, it time we did things DIFFERENTLY.

Virtually all of the development on John's Island has been INSIDE the urban growth beltway.  Bring thousands of additional autos onto the island (via I-526) will put tremendous development pressures on the rural parts of John's Island.  That's why the emphasis should be on find a way to move the existing traffic better, rather than ADDING a huge source of NEW traffic to the island, which extending I-526 would do.   

As for Citadel mall, enclosed malls are going the way of the dinoseur everywhere.  What happened to Downtowns 40 years ago is now happening to enclosed malls. Have you been to Regency mall in Jax or Columbia Mall  in Columbia lately?  Notice a trend?   I could tell you to visit Greenville Mall, but it has been TORN DOWN, for you guessed it, a 'lifestyle' retail center.  Long Savannah will bring the newest style of retail, the Lifestyle Center, to West Ashley.  In short, it's a national change in customer preferences.

The SPA board is appointed by the Governor and the legislature.  THEY control it. The city neither funds nor controls any aspect of the ports governace. The loss of Maerek is DIRECTLY related to the cheaper labor in Savannah.  There is NO reference to conservationist/preservation being the reason for their pulling out in any published reports that I have seen.   

The fact is that Savannah has been rising as a port, and Charleston declining for over a decade.  Blame the ones actually in charge.  The Governor and legislature have had a long and public dispute over board appointments, resulting in legal actions.   Gee, do you think that might be why no one seems to be minding the store?         

[vicupstate]

If you don't mind, attach a few links to the recent articles you mentioned.

Here are some links to show what is going on in my hometown:

http://www.charleston.net/news/2009/jan/26/proposal_rules_out_extended_highway69553/ (Riley kowtowing to the CCL by placating them with a half-ass alternative)

http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/dec/09/riley_other_mayors_talk_infrastructure64432/ (Instead of using the city's budget, Riley is now asking for federal dollars for drainage and schools...without even mentioning I-526, widening I-26 from terminus/US 17, walkways on other city bridges, and intersection improvements on SC 61, SC 7, US 17, and SC 171)

http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/nov/12/developers_unveil_plans61302/ (as Riley dabbles with tiny redevelopment projects, its northern suburb continues to grab more of the retail market through massive $750 million projects)

http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/nov/03/a_grand_design60242/ (now 4 years after removal, not one shovel has turned over dirt in this project due to slow, uninspired planning)

http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep/11/n_charleston_ready_settle54169/ (Riley has neglected to annex large tracts West Ashley, causing this dispute between its northern suburbs)

http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep/11/lighting_public_restrooms_more_parking_p54022/ (NOTHING has been done for this plan to renovate the market)

http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep/09/city_st_andrews_strike_revenue_deal53511/ (A ridiculous deal between the city and PSD where the PSD still gets tax revenue while the city has jurisdiction; read my comments under poster "icbmman")

http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/aug/20/council_divided_on_sag51426/ (Allowing city council to spend time making asinine laws)

http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/jun/22/police_crack_down_on_parking_lot_parties45321/ (More asinine laws prohibiting alcohol at tailgate parties next to Riverdog and Citadel games while public drunks still ask for handouts downtown; in conjunction, the city has been aggressively prohibiting wine at its art walks)

http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/dec/19/shipping_out65559/ (Maersk pulling out of the Chas port; while this is not directly related to Riley, he is indirectly responsible with his complicit collaborations with the CCL and other environmental groups that have limited port expansion...if the port had aggressive expansion plans pushed by the mayor, Maersk would not have made the decision has hastily)

** See my previous post regarding I-526

** Charleston (population 125,000) has requested $1 billion in the stimulus. Jacksonville (population 800,000) has requested $250 million.  Do I need to do the per capita math for you?  Neither city will get all that it wants, but you certainly won't get what you don't ask for.

The projects requested were based on which ones are closest to being SHOVEL READY.  Significant engineering and ROW acquistion would be needed on the others.  Despite that, getting funding for the projects that are closer to being ready, will let the others 'move up in the queue', meaning they will start sooner than they otherwise would.

BTW, did you see where Riley's former executive assistant is now working in the White House, and will have direct input on how the stimulus will be given to cities??  Charleston's reputation for good urban design, no doubt had a hand in that coming about.


** Every project that occurs in Charleston is not going to be in Charleston proper.  Summerville, Goose Creek, North Charleston and Mount Pleasant will get there share since they collectively have 3/4 of the metro population.  The Long Savannah project (in Charleston proper) is many times bigger than the North Charleston project, to say nothing of the Magnolia or the Midtown projects(also in Charleston).  Besides, it remains to be seen if the N. chas project will actually materialize. Remember Noisette?           

** The redevelopment of the area under the old bridges has been slow, but did you notice that the STATE still holds the property title???   Would YOU spend money on something you didn't own?   Are you familiar with the Bull Street property in Columbia???   The state is still holding title there, after being approved to be surplused, it is also years behind schedule.  Are you seeing a pattern here?   The problem isn't the plans for the property.  Charleston is a national leader in revitialzation.   

** Annexation.  I can't believe you ACTUALLY went there. Summerville and Charleston made a deal to each annex up to the Dorchester county line.  Charleston completed it's annexation, all nice and legal.  Summerville missed a deadline by 12 hours, thus allowing North Charleston to prevail and annex the area in question, which isn't even in Charleston County.  Yet, somehow it is Charleston's fault.  HHHMMM??  You lost me on that one.

As you well know, annexation under any circumstances is difficult in SC. Despite that, Riley has fought tooth and nail to expand the city's borders. Charleston has grown through annexation from 16 square miles (smaller than Florence) to about 112 square miles today, all under Riley's watch.  No mayor of any SC city, ever, comes close to that.  That expansion of the tax base has allowed the city to achieve the highest credit rating available. The only SC city to do so.

** The historic Market Hall  building received a major renovation not that long ago.  Money doesn't grow on trees. What city hasn't had to delay projects in this economy?

** PSDs should never have existed, and are long past there usefulness. However, the city was under a court order to come to an agreement.  The city cannot defy a court order.  In a few years the city will receive the full amount of taxes.  Slowly but surely the PSD will continue to lose it's tax base,  and eventually, it will die out.  Would you prefer the city stop annexing in West Ashley?

** One councilman introduced an assinine bill that didn't pass. If ONLY one of 12 councilmen is a dimwit, then Charleston is WAY ahead of the game.  At least he didn't spend $10,000 on a monument to himself.

** Tailgate parties.  I haven't followed the issue, and frankly don't give a rat's ass.  If this follows the typical pattern, the 'crackdown' on yuppie events is required  in order to legally crackdown on vagrant public drunkenness.       

** Riley and the city have no control over that port.  If they did, I assure you it would NOT be having these difficulties.           

[ProjectMaximus]

Too bad Charleston Native already posted that exact link in this thread three days ago.

Yes, good find, stjr. ;-)

(I'm just sticking up for the guy cause I know what it's like to make a post and have the credit go to someone else later...lol)

Apoloiges, I missed that one.  It's hard to tell from the link unless you click on what story it is.  I click on many but miss a few when rushed.  Interesting that the intro to the link can make a difference as to whether it gets pursued apparently.  Everyone seems to have a different "hot button" 

LOL, no worries. I absolutely understand how that would happen. I just thought it was a hilarious "coincidence"...Lakelander's comment that served as the impetus for you to show us that article was in fact a response to that very article.

Very good, carry on...

[BridgeTroll]

Great Super Bowl shots!!  Jax never looked better!

[Jason]

Fantastic shots!  Again, thanks for sharing.

[JeffreyS]

02Roadking would you mind if I made a igoogle theme from one of your pics.

[Charleston native]

I support conservation and preservation when it is logical to do so.  I support the new hotel at Marion Square, which as you know stalwart preservationist oppose.   That said, I support their cause in large measure, because they created the wonderful city that is there. 

You support development in EVERY instance over either natural or historic preservation.  No, I am not willing to sacrifice historic structures for a Taco Bell, that can just as easily go elsewhere, or even go in the historic structure.

Wow, so much to break down, and I need to work rather than respond to this tripe. I'll try to keep it short and sweet. In this instance, your assertion is flat-out BS, and the analogy is completely disingenuous (you must be getting debate tactics from Dare). I'm actually for preservation, but in moderation, and not at the expense of encouraging business to locate downtown...in actuality, light levels of preservation should be used north of Calhoun while it is logical to preserve heavily south of Calhoun.

The residents of John's Island overwhelmingly oppose the extention of I-526.  Likewise so do many Charlestonians elsewhere.  The Seabrook/Kiawah Islanders are the only ones monolithicly  in favor of it.  After a half century of sprawl run amok, it time we did things DIFFERENTLY.

Virtually all of the development on John's Island has been INSIDE the urban growth beltway.  Bring thousands of additional autos onto the island (via I-526) will put tremendous development pressures on the rural parts of John's Island.  That's why the emphasis should be on find a way to move the existing traffic better, rather than ADDING a huge source of NEW traffic to the island, which extending I-526 would do.

This is just a flat-out lie. You really have no idea what you're talking about. Read the P&C's poll on extending I-526: it was overwhelmingly supported by 70%. Most working people in Chas WANT I-526, and to keep things the same or use the city's "pitchfork" plan is utterly retarded. If you actually lived on JI or knew how many people now live on the island, you would see that there is already high levels of NEW traffic. JI is being built up without the extension, and by not building I-526, you actually think things will get better? That is just obtuse.

As for Citadel mall, enclosed malls are going the way of the dinoseur everywhere.  What happened to Downtowns 40 years ago is now happening to enclosed malls. Have you been to Regency mall in Jax or Columbia Mall  in Columbia lately?  Notice a trend?   I could tell you to visit Greenville Mall, but it has been TORN DOWN, for you guessed it, a 'lifestyle' retail center.  Long Savannah will bring the newest style of retail, the Lifestyle Center, to West Ashley.  In short, it's a national change in customer preferences.

Again, you obviously don't get out much. The Village at Sandhill in Cola is stagnant with a high vacancy rate and future phases are not being constructed while the residences there are now being leased instead of offered for purchase. And yet, nobody wants to live there. Lifestyle centers are going to become a short-lived trend...at least in areas that have cold and inclement weather. Charlotte has a new Northlake Mall which is doing well, and Southpark is just booming. The bottomline is that the city and mall management control a mall's success. Ironically, Citadel and Northwoods malls are owned by CBL, the same company that owns the dying Columbia Mall.

The SPA board is appointed by the Governor and the legislature.  THEY control it. The city neither funds nor controls any aspect of the ports governace. The loss of Maerek is DIRECTLY related to the cheaper labor in Savannah.  There is NO reference to conservationist/preservation being the reason for their pulling out in any published reports that I have seen.   

The fact is that Savannah has been rising as a port, and Charleston declining for over a decade.  Blame the ones actually in charge.  The Governor and legislature have had a long and public dispute over board appointments, resulting in legal actions.   Gee, do you think that might be why no one seems to be minding the store?

The city has done nothing to make things better. Yet, it has been revealed that the mayor has an agenda with downtown port land...to build more low-rise condos, hotels, and restaurants. Which will be at the expense of higher-paying port jobs. I indeed blame the board and the legislature, but keep in mind that Riley did nothing to help matters with the Global Gateway terminal, and he could have.

Long Savannah is not going to be a project like the north city's, and to say so is disingenuous. It will actually be more like Lake Carolina: a large neighborhood with many subdivisions and a gathering area (mini-downtown). It will not be a retail center like the north city's, especially since there will be no major infrastructure such as an interstate (although this would be a perfect location to place Glenn McConnell Blvd. as a spur for I-14 to be extended towards I-95 and Augusta).

If Chas had proximity to Watson Hill, why didn't it annex the property themselves instead of relying on another municipality? This collaboration with S'ville proved to be a complete debacle, and if Riley was still competent, I imagine that he would've annexed it himself.

You really are becoming an Obama drone. Renovations for the Market have been in planning stages for YEARS, regardless of the economy.

Where does it say that the city is required to placate the PSD through a court order? I want the city to continue to annex all of West Ashley...but I don't remember a court order requiring them to acquiesce to the PSD.

You should give a rat's ass about the city sticking it to law abiding citizens who want to have a couple of drinks during a tailgate or an artwalk rather than paying attention to drunks and druggies on the East Side. Other "progressive" cities like Denver, Boston, Philadelphia, and New York do not target citizens trying to enjoy a ballgame or artwalk.

Good night, I need to focus on my job than trying to convince you about Riley. It's pretty sad that while I have had good things to say about Riley, I can't even criticize things that he continually neglects or has screwed up. In essence, that means you truly have drank the Kool-Aid.

[02roadking]

02Roadking would you mind if I made a igoogle theme from one of your pics.

Of course you can.