Where's that Super Bowl Spirit?

[Charleston native]

The super bowl won't but progressive leadership can.  Charlotte and Charleston are shining examples.

Actually, Chas is starting to regress a bit, especially with jobs, business, the port, and finishing its beltway.

[thelakelander]

Outside of spots like DC, most cities are regressing a bit in these areas because of the national economic conditions.  Nevertheless, there has been no regression in visionary leadership coming from the Mayor's office.

[Doctor_K]

Indeed Lewyn. 

But compared to Jacksonville's 123 murders in 2007 (latest available info through COJ.net that I could find) compared to Orlando's 38 for that year, I'd say there's quite a discrepancy.  Jacksonville clearly had the higher murder numbers. 

And because there are less total people in Jax than Orlando, that means our per capita rate was even higher.

[thelakelander]

2.  The notion that one football game was going to have a transformative effect is just stupid.  Does anyone besides a hard-core football fan remember who hosted the Super Bowl in what year?

I don't think that was the intended notion.  While hosting a super bowl can be used as a catalyst for public legacy projects (ie. Detroit's Campus Martius Park), the super bowl spirit Mayor Peyton wants the community to have can only be achieved through visionary leadership.  In other words, it will start or end with him (or a future administration).

[Charleston native]

Outside of spots like DC, most cities are regressing a bit in these areas because of the national economic conditions.  Nevertheless, there has been no regression in visionary leadership coming from the Mayor's office.

We will disagree here. He has become more inept in getting basic infrastructure completed like downtown drainage and flood prevention, while kowtowing to extremist organizations like the Coastal Conservation League among other environmentalists with several actions: severely dimming lighting on the new Ravenel bridge, trying to build walkable suburbs through building higher-density WITHOUT building sidewalks in the currently existing neighborhoods, and not strongly emphasizing and encouraging the completion of I-526.

Riley has had good ideas in the past, but he is now declining in age and health. As a result, he is starting to become a puppet of the NIMBYs and environmentalists that plague the city. The major redevelopment projects that were planned have slowed down, and while the economy shoulders most of the blame, the projects were downscaled by Riley and his minions on the planning board. Downscaling NEVER produces inspiration to encourage strong redevelopment. Meanwhile, N. Charleston, the city's fiercest suburban competitor is poised to develop more retail and residential areas while Chas sits on its hands.

Read some of the more recent articles, and you'll see what's happening in that community. Riley is starting to become a municipal Strom Thurmond: has the experience, but is too old to do anything with it.

[thelakelander]

If you don't mind, attach a few links to the recent articles you mentioned.

[Charleston native]

That will take some time, but I'll do my best.

[jeh1980]

The SB was a tremendous wasted opportunity.
[/quote]
I would disagree. There was some good changes that happened after the Super Bowl. Despite the fact that we only have a skyway and not rail which some of us still wishing this town would've got, we now have some residents living in downtown, some restaurants and bars were added. I think that the Super Bowl was the best thing that had happened here. And maybe when we get the another Super Bowl sometime in the near future, we will probably do a whole lot better than before.  

[reednavy]

Indeed Lewyn. 

But compared to Jacksonville's 123 murders in 2007 (latest available info through COJ.net that I could find) compared to Orlando's 38 for that year, I'd say there's quite a discrepancy.  Jacksonville clearly had the higher murder numbers. 

And because there are less total people in Jax than Orlando, that means our per capita rate was even higher.

Total people in City of Orlando is much smaller than Jacksonville, which leads to lop-sided statistics. We may have more murders, but look at the # of people here, it is comparable to similar-sized cities.

[stjr]

I don't think the Super Bowl did much to permanently change the physical or emotional face of Jax or add permanent jobs.  What it was good for was to provide an invaluable opportunity to show the LOCAL populace what our future potential could be if we made long term enhancements to downtown.

On the Saturday before the game, I walked from the Southbank over the Main Street bridge and walked from CSX along the riverwalk, through the Adams Mark/Hyatt, and onto Bay Street to the Stadium, the Baseball Grounds, and the Shipyards . I also took in the NFL Experience on the Southbank. Unfortunately, I haven't found many locals who did the same, most of them likely scared off by the overblown fears of traffic (I found a free parking space at the foot of the Acosta bridge diagonal to CSX.  It was only steps to the action on the Riverwalk.  And the traffic was almost nil because most visitors downtown didn't have cars! -they flew and took taxis or buses).

If the locals had taken the time, they would have experienced pedestrian-only streets jammed wall to wall with tens of thousands of people for the entire stretch enjoying a wonderful day and evening with lots of food, entertainment, street happenings, best fireworks show ever in Jax, etc. a la Bourbon Street of New Orleans or NY's Times Square, the hundreds of boats and yachts in the river and along the Riverwalk, and the planes, blimps, and helicopters flying continuously overhead.  If one couldn't get excited about our potential then, it will never happen.

A week after the game, it was like it was all a dream.   Not a shred of evidence existed that anything had changed as all the bars, restaurants, booths, events, street closures, banners, fireworks, etc. were like a Hollywood set to be dismantled when the movie shooting is over.

So...if our residents, movers, and shakers did not immerse themselves in these festivities, they will not have benefitted from us having the Super Bowl.  My supposition is so few had the experience, it isn't enough to leave a legacy or imprint on the City's fabric - or to create a groundswell demanding a permanent recreation of same.  Another squandered opportunity.

[vicupstate]

The super bowl won't but progressive leadership can.  Charlotte and Charleston are shining examples.

Actually, Chas is starting to regress a bit, especially with jobs, business, the port, and finishing its beltway.

The port has had some setbacks, but it is controlled completely by a STATE authority.  The throughly inept leadership in Columbia is responsible for that.  The last leg of the beltway is not being completed because doing so would be a costly and sprawl-inducing mistake. Not to mention it will cost a boat-load of money that no one has right now.

As for the total BS comments on Riley, he has more vision and leadership in his toenail clippings than the entirety of  Jacksonville's business and government bodies combined.  Riley is 65 and runs several miles daily, Thurmond was 100 and didn't know wher ehe was half the time, your comparision is bogus.   

Although no city is immune from the national econmy ,there is still plenty going on in Charleston.  Cigar Factory Lofts, Morris Square, One Cool Blow, Anson House condomiums, Longbranch, the digital corridor, the Midtown project.  ALL of those are just in the DT area. 

If you want the details just read this state of the city report from last week.

http://www.charleston.net/media/2009/text/sotca2009.doc

I would far rather live in a city that had a battle royale whenever history is endangered, than live in one where no one cares until decades later when everyone laments " if only we had saved those beautiful old buildings, think where we would be today".       

[Jason]

What about the riverwalk expansion or the lighting of the bridges?  I'd say those were our Superbowl legacies, and a great addition to the city.

[Charleston native]

Vic, it is only because you adhere to an obsession with preservation that you think the city is doing great. You refer to the state of the city address; I'll refer to the numerous articles indicating an almost successful incorporation of a pseudo-town (James Island), the port of Chas losing one of its primary shipping companies (Maersk), West Ashley's retail area still void of redevelopment (Citadel Mall falling apart) while N. Charleston is aggressively expanding with Watson Hill and planning new retail centers, and continuous flooding downtown despite the promises made years ago. And I never said he was comparable to Thurmond completely, I said he was beginning to.

Evidently, you are walking lockstep with the environmentalist whackos of the CCL who prefer moving traffic through established neighborhoods rather than listening to the working people of Chas who have been screaming for years to finish the beltway. If zoning is enforced, suburban development can be minimized...oh, it is interesting to note that neighborhoods and shopping centers are being built on Johns Island EVEN WITHOUT I-526 BEING BUILT. So I guess it makes sense to not build a beltway even if it ISN'T encouraging suburban development? 

You need to read up on the SPA. It is a state agency in terms of governance, but it is a quasi-business, meaning that it is not publically funded. It is also NOT HQ'd in Cola; the SPA HQ is on Concord Street in downtown Chas. Groseclose, the CEO, has just resigned, but he was hamstrung by NIMBYs, the ILA (union) the CCL, and state bureaucrats. These entities have prevented Chas from getting the Global Gateway terminal as well as another essential north/south interstate, plus they have interfered with the current terminal that is trying to be built on the Navy base.

Since I don't have much time, here's an article that many of you may find interesting...it shows that Charleston's real competitor for port business could be good old Jacksonville: http://www.charleston.net/news/2009/feb/02/jacksonville_wants_piece_containerport_action/

[stjr]

What about the riverwalk expansion or the lighting of the bridges?  I'd say those were our Superbowl legacies, and a great addition to the city.

Both were paid by the taxpayers, not private investment.  And while the Super Bowl might have sped up these projects, they were discussed long ago.  I think, sooner or later, they would have still been done.  Regardless, while nice bells and whistles, I hardly call these the high impact projects affecting the life blood of downtown (you don't even need to leave your car or go downtown to see most of the bridges).

By the way, last time I saw the Main Street bridge at night, the LED displays, such as the American Flag and its other changeable patterns, on the towers were not up to snuff.  I haven't seen them maintained at full capacity since the Super Bowl.

Soon, I will start another topic on a significant project I think should be at the top of the Super Bowl's legacy in Jax.  Keep your eyes peeled.

[Jason]

Not going to argue with you there.  The Main Street bridge graphics were failing within the first year of operation.  Still, you can't deny the lighting on the bridges is very striking.


I'm looking forward to your next thread.