Jacksonville - Why?

[DONTBELIEVETHEHYPE]

No this district did not grow out of the entertainment district vision.  In fact the city could not possibly have been less helpful in the process.

It is the product of a few private citizens (Jason Grimes, Ryan Rummel, Mark Hemphill and soon to be joined by Jonathan Insetta.)  It just happens to be where the city had talked about 'creating' the district.

The changes that have taken place on Bay Street have been remarkable in terms of life and the lessening of crime as well as the increased sense of safety perception.

Isn't it logical to think that crime would be naturally reduced with these types of venues next door to the police headquarters?  

Do the proposed Bay Street improvements support these businesses, or does the infrastructure improvement cater to the continuing evolution of downtown as a special events district?  Could it be that the proposed will support efficient traffic movement for 15-20 special events a year, at the expense of the support of these businesses the other 350 days a year?

[thelakelander]

I think downtown has to work for itself first.  If it can become a viable neighborhood, every thing else will fall in line.  

I believe every project in downtown should face similar questions to ensure that its properly integrated into the urban core.  This way it will be easier to stimulate synergy between nearby development instead of having a core with isolated pockets of activity.

I really question your last statement.  Let me follow up.

How can any downtown, or any neighborhood function as an autonomous entity without understanding how it fits within its larger context?  How can downtown be successful if it's not consciously identified communitywide as a priority?  And, what of the priority if public policy runs counter to downtown's success?

Downtown is really a high density urban neighborhood.  However, sometimes we try to force it to work for suburbanites instead of it being a self sustaining viable mixed-use community.  Btw, I'm not saying it should be cut off from its surroundings or that we should not work to better connect it to nearby neighborhoods.  I'm just saying we'll get farther by focusing on making it neighborhood as opposed to a suburbanite's theme park for sporting, entertainment and cultural events.

Isn't the "high density urban neighborhood" demand created first by a strong dense business presence in a city's CBD, with cultural venues, residential development, and bars/restaurantes a byproduct?

I don't think so.  Density deals with zoning.  Nevertheless, DT already has nearly 60,000 daytime workers, an assortment of cultural venues, bars and restaurants.  Unfortunately, most of it is poorly integrated or designed to not be seen from the street.   Downtown is already attractive enough to pull in additional residential opportunities.  We just have to find a way to remove the barriers that keep it from naturally happening.

Aren't larger issues of public transportation, and growth management critical to direct the desired types of businesses and uses downtown?

I would say public transportation and growth management are two critical components of making downtown a more self sufficient urban neighborhood.

[DONTBELIEVETHEHYPE]

I think downtown has to work for itself first.  If it can become a viable neighborhood, every thing else will fall in line.  

I believe every project in downtown should face similar questions to ensure that its properly integrated into the urban core.  This way it will be easier to stimulate synergy between nearby development instead of having a core with isolated pockets of activity.

I really question your last statement.  Let me follow up.

How can any downtown, or any neighborhood function as an autonomous entity without understanding how it fits within its larger context?  How can downtown be successful if it's not consciously identified communitywide as a priority?  And, what of the priority if public policy runs counter to downtown's success?

Downtown is really a high density urban neighborhood.  However, sometimes we try to force it to work for suburbanites instead of it being a self sustaining viable mixed-use community.  Btw, I'm not saying it should be cut off from its surroundings or that we should not work to better connect it to nearby neighborhoods.  I'm just saying we'll get farther by focusing on making it neighborhood as opposed to a suburbanite's theme park for sporting, entertainment and cultural events.

Isn't the "high density urban neighborhood" demand created first by a strong dense business presence in a city's CBD, with cultural venues, residential development, and bars/restaurantes a byproduct?

I don't think so.  Density deals with zoning.  Nevertheless, DT already has nearly 60,000 daytime workers, an assortment of cultural venues, bars and restaurants.  Unfortunately, most of it is poorly integrated or designed to not be seen from the street.   Downtown is already attractive enough to pull in additional residential opportunities.  We just have to find a way to remove the barriers that keep it from naturally happening.

Aren't larger issues of public transportation, and growth management critical to direct the desired types of businesses and uses downtown?

I would say public transportation and growth management are two critical components of making downtown a more self sufficient urban neighborhood.

I disagree.  Density is regulated by zoning, but it's occurance and success is a result of demand-driven dynamics and the creation of an infrastructure and planning policy to support it. 

[thelakelander]

I agree.  The same goes for sprawl.  I'm not sure where the disagreement is focused on.

[DONTBELIEVETHEHYPE]

I agree.  The same goes for sprawl.  I'm not sure where the disagreement is focused on.

I go back to my initial post.

Is it possible, or realistic, that the infrastructure and planning policy can position Jacksonville to achieve it's potential?

Presuming it is, how?  What are the prioritized specific infrastructure improvements and planning policies that can contribute to make it happen?

[thelakelander]

Yes its possible.  If it can happen in cities like Charlotte, it can happen anywhere.  How does it happen?  First you need leaders that aren't afraid of backing a vision.  As for specific things that need to be addressed in downtown, I believe Stephen hit on a series of things that need to happen in reply #30 of this thread. 

1.  Recovering the Center and establishing a focal point for the city as a whole.
         A. Removing the structural, policy and cutural barriers to private development of downtown and its surrounding districts.
               a.  Traffic and Parking barriers to development of small business and small business districts.
                    1.  Remove all Parking meters and scale back enforcement of a three hour time limit.
                    2.  Remove and redesign the traffic pattern loops that arose out of the spirit of the '71 redeveloment plan.  Make most streets two way with fewer lights or put lights on a simple flashing red/yellow system.
                    3.  Create a system of tax penalties for vacant single level parking lots to discourage their proliferation.
               b.  Structural Landscaping designed to create self contained and seperate physical domains of downtown should be reversed.
                    1.  The through street in the middle of FCCJ Downtown Campus should be restored and turned at least into a pedestrian/bike/skate/scooter lane to facilitate permeability between the neighborhoods.
                    2.  The one way streets that prevent traffic movement between downtown and Springfield should be removed.  Laura, Main, and a restored Hogan thru way, Pearl, Broad and Davis should be two way avenues to allow easy access to the neighborhoods.
                    3.  The Parisian Boulevard Nightmare Concept hatched by Jack Diamond to be created by demolishing over 15 square blocks of downtown should be immediately abandoned officially.  His plan has already led to the demolition of most of the historic structures between Main and Ocean and has contributed greatly to the demise of the downtown.
                   4.  Bike and scooter lanes should be clearly established radiating out from both the College Campus and the River.

              c.  Cessation of City Policies which inhibit development downtown.

                    1.  The Sheriff's Office should no longer be empowered to block all traffic flow from Stadium and Veteran's Arena or Church events and immediately funnel all potential endusers out of downtown and its surrounding neighborhoods.  On Sundays after the game, for several crucial retail and recreational hours, downtown, San Marco and Springfield are effectively blockaded, and Sheriff's Office representatives have expressed on several occasions that the office is not going to 'encourage the growth of bars' downtown.
                   2.  The City should not be allowed to indefinitely 'landbank' property downtown in aggregate.  Time limits need to be assessed and enforced which narrow the amount of time that the City or its agencies can sit as defacto absentee landlords on downtown property.  Requirements to ensure the use of the buildings should be put in place even if the City does not sell the property to private developers.
                    3.  Likewise, the City should not be allowed to use historic and downtown properties to satisfy contractual benefits with the various city Unions.  The City owns and takes posession of a number of properties thoughout the county.  Only these outlying properties should be available for such transactions.
                    4.  The tremendous pressure that Fitzhugh Powell and the old guard is allowed to exert over downtown nightclubs needs to come to an end.  The various nightclubs and dance spots should be able to open without the repeated harrassment of city officials like that which has been experienced by the Pearl and TSI.  (not to mention the countless other forms of harrassment against clubs like The Milk Bar, MotoLounge,  Christy Clarks ill fated "Heaven" and Thee Imperial)
                    5.  The City needs to immediately create a solution to the homeless and social service issues confronting the downtown.  The city core should not be the receptacle for all of the social issues imported from the largest land area County in the contiguous states.  Likewise a few nuts without posession of Social Policy degrees should not be dictating the development of city policy such as the recent closing of the downtown parks and the ludicrous suggestion to put all of downtown under 24 hour surveillance.
                    6.  The City needs to immediately school itself and hire people who are able to correctly facilitate the various tax benefits that are already available to the federally designated Empowerment and Enterprise Zones.  These benefits are not being made accessible to the actual intended endusers.

               d.  Removal of the Various Cultural Barriers.
                    1.  Events designed to encourage people from all walks of the cities life should be immediately scheduled. 
                    2.  Tie ins to both Edward Waters and FCCJ Campus Student activities should be created.  Perhaps in the form of a mutual bookstore and bike trails leading to the municipal parks and facilities. 

                    3.  a TOP priority should be made to enhance the higher educational presence in the downtown.  It is inconceivable that the Law College was simply left to abandon its horrible location on Beach Blvd and relocate to the southside along with the Art Institute even after both institutions had expressed strong interest in downtown locations.

                    4.  The low man on the totem pole that has been Historic Preservation needs to be reversed.  Tax penalties should be assessed for the demolition of historic structures that would be severe and equally matched by tax incentives and grants made available for the restoration or adaptive reuse of said structures.

tbecontinued

In short, the public sector needs to get out of the way and let the private sector and true market demands lead the way.

[tufsu1]

As of now Jacksonville is the next Oakland, Baltimore, Detroit & New Orleans....the city is heading in that direction. Hats off to anyone that has the patience to change or effect the future of Jacksonville, but honestly it is going to be a lot of work and a lot of heart ache. [/color]

Based on some of the progress happening in all those cities, it might not be such a bad thing!

[DONTBELIEVETHEHYPE]

Yes its possible.  If it can happen in cities like Charlotte, it can happen anywhere.  How does it happen?  First you need leaders that aren't afraid of backing a vision.  As for specific things that need to be addressed in downtown, I believe Stephen hit on a series of things that need to happen in reply #30 of this thread. 

1.  Recovering the Center and establishing a focal point for the city as a whole.
         A. Removing the structural, policy and cutural barriers to private development of downtown and its surrounding districts.
               a.  Traffic and Parking barriers to development of small business and small business districts.
                    1.  Remove all Parking meters and scale back enforcement of a three hour time limit.
                    2.  Remove and redesign the traffic pattern loops that arose out of the spirit of the '71 redeveloment plan.  Make most streets two way with fewer lights or put lights on a simple flashing red/yellow system.
                    3.  Create a system of tax penalties for vacant single level parking lots to discourage their proliferation.
               b.  Structural Landscaping designed to create self contained and seperate physical domains of downtown should be reversed.
                    1.  The through street in the middle of FCCJ Downtown Campus should be restored and turned at least into a pedestrian/bike/skate/scooter lane to facilitate permeability between the neighborhoods.
                    2.  The one way streets that prevent traffic movement between downtown and Springfield should be removed.  Laura, Main, and a restored Hogan thru way, Pearl, Broad and Davis should be two way avenues to allow easy access to the neighborhoods.
                    3.  The Parisian Boulevard Nightmare Concept hatched by Jack Diamond to be created by demolishing over 15 square blocks of downtown should be immediately abandoned officially.  His plan has already led to the demolition of most of the historic structures between Main and Ocean and has contributed greatly to the demise of the downtown.
                   4.  Bike and scooter lanes should be clearly established radiating out from both the College Campus and the River.

              c.  Cessation of City Policies which inhibit development downtown.

                    1.  The Sheriff's Office should no longer be empowered to block all traffic flow from Stadium and Veteran's Arena or Church events and immediately funnel all potential endusers out of downtown and its surrounding neighborhoods.  On Sundays after the game, for several crucial retail and recreational hours, downtown, San Marco and Springfield are effectively blockaded, and Sheriff's Office representatives have expressed on several occasions that the office is not going to 'encourage the growth of bars' downtown.
                   2.  The City should not be allowed to indefinitely 'landbank' property downtown in aggregate.  Time limits need to be assessed and enforced which narrow the amount of time that the City or its agencies can sit as defacto absentee landlords on downtown property.  Requirements to ensure the use of the buildings should be put in place even if the City does not sell the property to private developers.
                    3.  Likewise, the City should not be allowed to use historic and downtown properties to satisfy contractual benefits with the various city Unions.  The City owns and takes posession of a number of properties thoughout the county.  Only these outlying properties should be available for such transactions.
                    4.  The tremendous pressure that Fitzhugh Powell and the old guard is allowed to exert over downtown nightclubs needs to come to an end.  The various nightclubs and dance spots should be able to open without the repeated harrassment of city officials like that which has been experienced by the Pearl and TSI.  (not to mention the countless other forms of harrassment against clubs like The Milk Bar, MotoLounge,  Christy Clarks ill fated "Heaven" and Thee Imperial)
                    5.  The City needs to immediately create a solution to the homeless and social service issues confronting the downtown.  The city core should not be the receptacle for all of the social issues imported from the largest land area County in the contiguous states.  Likewise a few nuts without posession of Social Policy degrees should not be dictating the development of city policy such as the recent closing of the downtown parks and the ludicrous suggestion to put all of downtown under 24 hour surveillance.
                    6.  The City needs to immediately school itself and hire people who are able to correctly facilitate the various tax benefits that are already available to the federally designated Empowerment and Enterprise Zones.  These benefits are not being made accessible to the actual intended endusers.

               d.  Removal of the Various Cultural Barriers.
                    1.  Events designed to encourage people from all walks of the cities life should be immediately scheduled. 
                    2.  Tie ins to both Edward Waters and FCCJ Campus Student activities should be created.  Perhaps in the form of a mutual bookstore and bike trails leading to the municipal parks and facilities. 

                    3.  a TOP priority should be made to enhance the higher educational presence in the downtown.  It is inconceivable that the Law College was simply left to abandon its horrible location on Beach Blvd and relocate to the southside along with the Art Institute even after both institutions had expressed strong interest in downtown locations.

                    4.  The low man on the totem pole that has been Historic Preservation needs to be reversed.  Tax penalties should be assessed for the demolition of historic structures that would be severe and equally matched by tax incentives and grants made available for the restoration or adaptive reuse of said structures.

tbecontinued

In short, the public sector needs to get out of the way and let the private sector and true market demands lead the way.

I don't disagree. 

Can the Elected Officials back a Vision?  Do Jacksonville's elected and appointed officials have the expertise, leadership, and credibility to back and lead this effort? 

[thelakelander]

Our officials should not have to come up with a community vision but someone has to conduct the train.  This is where elected leadership comes into play.  To make things happen on a grand scale, you need leaders smart enough to put the necessary components around them to see the vision through.  If this isn't done, you end up being a community who claims to want one thing (ex. rail, downtown vibrancy, density, etc.), but employs elected officials who continue to bring you more of the same.

[DONTBELIEVETHEHYPE]

The Elected officials can share a vision, but it is incumbent upon us to be able to define the elements of that vision in a coherent form, which we havent really done.

Elected officials are what they are.  Political animals without any requirements for education or expertise in specific areas.  Same with the appointed officials under our spoils system.

Its the career professionals that need to have the education and vision to be able to execute a plan worth living within, and unfortunately they are light on the ground.  There is an underlying assumption that direction has to come from the top (elected) down, whether or not expertise exists.

But in the absence of an enunciated programme, its not really appropriate to simply bitch about things.

Back to my initial series of observations/questions from the start of this thread.

HOW is Vision/Program enunciated?  Who is the "us" you refer to that are charged with defining the elements?  How can the career professionals you suggested create or execute a plan without the leadership, commissioning, and blessing of the elected officials? 

It's been enunciated once recently (in the 2000 Master Plan), arguably not comprehensively or effectively.  In what format is a Vision Plan enunciated to be effective?  How long have "us" been seeking to define such a plan? 

I'm trying to understand how change can be realized, and who can lead it.  Not simply bitching.   

[tufsu1]

Our officials should not have to come up with a community vision but someone has to conduct the train.  This is where elected leadership comes into play.  To make things happen on a grand scale, you need leaders smart enough to put the necessary components around them to see the vision through.  If this isn't done, you end up being a community who claims to want one thing (ex. rail, downtown vibrancy, density, etc.), but employs elected officials who continue to bring you more of the same.

this is where the Reality Check First Coast comes in....check the website

http://www.realitycheckfirstcoast.com/

[thelakelander]

Thanks for the link!

[tufsu1]

I'm not in favor of a "new urbanist" plan for the City...sure there are areas that would be well served by mixed-use dense development...but they don't have to follow the new urbansim bible.

Also, the vision plans and zoning code re-write currently underway by the Planning Dept. is bering done by a Miami consultant that claims to focus on sustainability and urbanism.

[JeffreyS]

What do we know about the code plans being rewritten.

[tufsu1]

Well thankfully TUFSU, you have a job in the private sector.

I wasnt aware of a New Urbanism Bible?

the way things are going, my job won't be around for long....every day I hear about someone else in the field being laid off.

as for the Bible, you found it...its called the charter of CNU....but if you don't do things in a certain way, charter members like Andres Duany blast you.