Replace Outer Beltway with New Link To Gainesville, I-75, Tampa

[9a is my backyard]

Building this road is all about enriching developers and land owners.  Nothing more and nothing less!

Other than that, the main purpose of this highway is to spread sprawl development to Clay and St. Johns.  Everything else is secondary.

Exactly - no effort has been made to find another way to alleviate existing congestion outside of building the beltway, so there's no way that can be the main reason.

[copperfiend]

I would think that with where we are economically that these types of projects would be pushed back.

[thelakelander]

I can see how a $2 billion privately funded road project can spur thousands of jobs in the road construction industry.  However, its debateable if we're talking about this as a long term solution to congestion in Jacksonville.

[stjr]

The biggest benefit will be a desperately needed new river crossing for Green Cove Springs. The Shands Bridge is the scariest one I think I have ever driven on, only 2 lanes, no shoulders, and only river 5 feet from the passenger side.

Then, maybe, you haven't been over the Chesapeake Bay bridge in Maryland connecting to it's Eastern Shore.  Having a fear of heights, this narrow laned, 186' high, 4.3 mile bridge, with open side rails and buffeting winds is such a nightmare for people they even have paid drivers available to drive your car over!  It gives me chills just recollecting my very careful drive over it a few years ago.  Never again.

Here is its Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_Bay_Bridge

[thelakelander]

I think the worst I've ever driven on was the old bridge replaced in 2005 by the Arthur Ravenel Jr. Bridge in Charleston, SC.

The first bridge to cross the lower Cooper River opened in 1929, eventually named the John P. Grace Memorial Bridge for former Charleston mayor John P. Grace, who spearheaded the project. The main span of the double cantilever truss bridge was the fifth longest in the world at 1,050 feet (320 m) and soared 150 feet (46 m) above the river. The main span of the second cantilever was the twelfth-longest in the world. The total length of the structure was about 2.7 miles (4.3 km). Following a 17 month construction at a cost of $6 million, it opened with a 3 day celebration that attracted visitors from around the globe. Engineers and critics proclaimed colorful descriptions of the unique structure, deeming it "the first roller-coaster bridge" and citing that "steep approaches, stupendous height, extremely narrow width, and a sharp curve at the dip conspire to excite and alarm the motorist." Privately owned originally, a 50-cent toll was charged for car and driver to cross. In 1943 the state of South Carolina purchased the bridge, and the tolls were lifted in 1946.

By the 1960s the Grace Memorial Bridge had become insufficient, with its two narrow 10-foot (3 m) lanes built for Ford Model A's and its steep grades of up to 6 percent. A new bridge was constructed alongside and parallel to it. Named for the then-South Carolina Highway Commissioner, the Silas N. Pearman Bridge opened in 1966 at cost of $15 million. Its three lanes, at a modern 12-foot (3.7 m) width, opened to northbound traffic while its older counterpart carried the southbound traffic into downtown Charleston. One lane was reversible on the Pearman bridge, which led to signs warning "Use lanes with green arrow" and "Do not use red X lane" on the bridge.

The two truss bridges had become functionally obsolete by 1979. Extensive metal deterioration caused by the lack of maintenance shortly after Grace Bridge's tolls were removed limited the capacity of the older Grace bridge to ten ton vehicles (later five tons), and the reversible lane on the Pearman was eliminated (it had been able to switch to three lanes northbound for rush hour traffic), making that lane southbound permanently, diverting all heavy trucks, buses, and recreational vehicles to that lane on the Pearman bridge. Neither of the bridges had emergency lanes, and the Pearman bridge had no median between the northbound and southbound lanes because of its reversible lane, and it was not until 2002 when flexible barriers were added to the Pearman bridge to prevent head-on collisions.

Furthermore, the vertical clearance above the river â€" once among the highest in the world â€" could no longer accommodate modern shipping vessels. Three of Charleston’s four shipping terminals are situated up the Cooper and Wando Rivers, and the limited bridge clearance excluded the access of ships that would otherwise be beneficial to the economy of South Carolina. Now that the old bridges are disassembled, the world’s largest modern container ships are able to access all terminals of the nation's fourth-largest container port.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ravenel_Jr._Bridge

[copperfiend]

The biggest benefit will be a desperately needed new river crossing for Green Cove Springs. The Shands Bridge is the scariest one I think I have ever driven on, only 2 lanes, no shoulders, and only river 5 feet from the passenger side.

Then, maybe, you haven't been over the Chesapeake Bay bridge in Maryland connecting to it's Eastern Shore.  Having a fear of heights, this narrow laned, 186' high, 4.3 mile bridge, with open side rails and buffeting winds is such a nightmare for people they even have paid drivers available to drive your car over!  It gives me chills just recollecting my very careful drive over it a few years ago.  Never again.

Maybe I drove over it on some good days but I never had a problem with the Tunnel Bridge.

[Joe]

That Charleston bridge was a nightmare. I was terrified of it as a child.

Regarding the thread topic ... I certainly dreamed of a freeway between Jax and Gville many times. When I went to grad school at UF, I despised how a 70 mile trip could sometimes take 2 hours!

However, such a freeway would probably be worthless if it just followed the path of 301. As someone else said, you can already drive most of 301 at freeway speeds. Trust me. I regularly drove it at over 70mph, and you are perfectly fine as long as you respect the speed traps. Unless you are going to build a completely new route that shaves off even more distance (and that would be cost prohibitive) a new freeway wouldn't be a huge improvement. You could approximate intersate speeds much cheaper by putting in bypasses for Starke and Waldo.

To me, the biggest problem is still the lack of options to cut through the suburbs. If you live several miles South of downtown (which is most people these days) you are faced with a no-win situation. Either you drive 70ish miles by fighting through Orange Park traffic and small country roads, or you drive 90ish miles and save maybe 10 minutes by doubling back to I-10 and 301.

My ideal situation would be to connect Collins road with I-295 and extend it all the way out to 301 (the right of way is all there - for now). That way you wouldn't have to chose between Blanding and needless extra miles. However, unless the city land-banked the surrounding properties as preservation land, it would just lead to more sprawling subdivisions anyway.

[Traveller]

Copperfiend, I don't think stjr is talking about the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel (U.S. 13) connecting Norfolk to the southern tip of the Delmarva Peninsula.  I think he's talking about the Bay Bridge (U.S. 50) connecting Annapolis to Maryland's Eastern Shore.  My friends and I used to take that route all the time from DC to Dewey Beach, Delaware, and I knew plenty of people who were terrified to drive over that bridge.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Chesapeake_Bay_Bridge_2.jpg

[stjr]

Copperfiend, I don't think stjr is talking about the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel (U.S. 13) connecting Norfolk to the southern tip of the Delmarva Peninsula.  I think he's talking about the Bay Bridge (U.S. 50) connecting Annapolis to Maryland's Eastern Shore.  My friends and I used to take that route all the time from DC to Dewey Beach, Delaware, and I knew plenty of people who were terrified to drive over that bridge.

Correct, Traveller.  Thanks for making it clear.  Lake's Charleston bridge looks like a real contender also.  I am glad I never had the "privilege" to challenge it.

[Doctor_K]

It's a great ride over that monster north from Chas into Mt. Pleasant.  Truly massive and awe-inspiring.

Isn't there an existing rail line from like Gainesville north to somewhere around the I-10/301 junction?  Couldn't we do a rail line from downtown outwards down Beaver/I-10, then south to parallel 301 most of the way down?  Or at least into whichever of those speed-trap towns are further south?

Why build freeway when there are existing rail lines?

Oh yea - this is the real world, where we work harder and not smarter.

[thelakelander]

The Bay Bridge - Annapolis, MD


The old John P. Grace Bridge - Charleston, SC.




I think some portions of the rail line between Jax and Gainesville have been removed.  Nevertheless, 301 is good enough for auto transit.  If better transportation is desired between Jax and Gainesville, rail should be explored.

[copperfiend]

Copperfiend, I don't think stjr is talking about the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel (U.S. 13) connecting Norfolk to the southern tip of the Delmarva Peninsula.  I think he's talking about the Bay Bridge (U.S. 50) connecting Annapolis to Maryland's Eastern Shore.  My friends and I used to take that route all the time from DC to Dewey Beach, Delaware, and I knew plenty of people who were terrified to drive over that bridge.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Chesapeake_Bay_Bridge_2.jpg

My mistake

[Jason]

My ideal situation would be to connect Collins road with I-295 and extend it all the way out to 301 (the right of way is all there - for now). That way you wouldn't have to chose between Blanding and needless extra miles. However, unless the city land-banked the surrounding properties as preservation land, it would just lead to more sprawling subdivisions anyway.

A new Collins/I295 interchange is currently under construction.  However the idea to extend Collins to 301 may not be easily.  Firstly, Cecil would be in direct conflict unless the road turned more to the south beyond Brannan-Chaffee.  Secondly, the area south and west of Cecil is Jennings State Forest. 

Extending Collins to Brannan-Chaffee would be a great idea though, and would aid with the limited connectivity of that area.



*** Correction:  An overpass at Collins and I295 is under construction, however, it's being built with the anticipation of a full interchange to be started sometime in 2010.  http://www.northfloridaroads.com/i295/projects/details.aspx?ProjectID=163

[Joe]

Yeah, extending Collins to 301 is just my ideal scenario. I know it won't happen. Although there's actually enough right-of-way between the Southern edge of Cecil and the Northern edge of Jennings State Forest. In fact, they already have roads running most of the way along the border. Then Collins could just swerve North or South to avoid Maxville. The biggest issue is that Oakleaf keeps expanding, and it's probably only a matter of time before they build something in the way.

But like you said, extending Collins at least to Brannan-Chaffee would be great. They seem to have preserved the right-of-way for it. If you're going to build an asinine outer-beltway collector in the middle of nowhere, you might as well implement as much of a grid as possible while you still can.

[copperfiend]

But doesn't Oaklead keep expanding into Clay County? I looked on Google and it looks like Collins could be extended past Oakleaf at least. But if my memory serves me correctly, there is some of power station at the end of Collins near Shindler.