Replace Outer Beltway with New Link To Gainesville, I-75, Tampa

[Jason]

There is a substation at that intersection, but there is still room for a new roadway to pass by it between the two existing sub-divisions.  The only barrier I can see the the one residence that appears to be directly in line with the roadway. 

Also, this extension would intersect Old Middleburg which would also contribute to the connectivity.

[Joe]

And if you really wanted to up the Westside connectivity, there's also enough room (if you get a little creative with power line easments) to extent Morse Ave at both ends, and have it run all the way from Roosevelt to Chaffee. It couldn't be a major arterial, but it could serve as a nice neighborhood through street.

But anyway, that's for another "conectivity" topic. One can only dream.

[Ocklawaha]

Y'all sound like whimps here... You didn't LIVE unless you crossed the ORIGINAL SHANDS BRIDGE! The new (current) one is a piece of cake. Oh and yes, the old wooden trestle barely one and a half lanes wide did have a high center span with WOOD side rails.

Cruise through that in your 52 studebaker and it was an adventure you'd never forget.

Another set of cool bridges were strung along US 17 at Doctors Lake, Black Creek, near Crescent Lake and another near Sanford. These massive big old bridges had a center swing span of steel. It sat on an island like pier with a long span on each end. They had a distinct music when you'd drive over them "clank - clank - ROAR - clank - clank" repeat... The center span of the one in Sanford is preserved in a roadside park where 17-92 crosses the St. Johns. (Funny, that's what the COJ SAID they would do with both the original Acosta AND part of the Fuller Warren --- not to worry, Sanford has us beat.)

A horrific "old-Shands like experience" was the long, James river bridge between Norfolk and Newport News, Virginia.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

On another note: The State of Florida has lost some real landmark bridges to stupid planning.


The old Acosta


The Veterans Memorial in Palatka was stunning... Today it's a modernist hack job.

BRIDGE OF THE LIONS? If something much more isn't done, it's following the Veterans Memorial into a modern hack job...

We better gird up for the fight to save the GRAND AVENUE BRIDGE in Ortega, as I'm certain it will be one of the next to fall.

ALL IS NOT PROGRESS!

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Maybe FDOT, Clay, and St. Johns should read this commentary on the future of far flung suburbs before spending $2 billion creating more of them.  Think before you jump! [#2 on Time's World Changing Ideas]

And, read their #4 World Changing Idea on the future of interstates before building more: 
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4594.msg70175/topicseen.html#new

Time Magazine
Thursday, Mar. 12, 2009
Recycling the Suburbs
By Bryan Walsh

The American suburb as we know it is dying. The implosion began with the housing bust, which started in and has hit hardest the once vibrant neighborhoods outside the urban core. Shopping malls and big-box retail stores, the commercial anchors of the suburbs, are going dark â€" an estimated 148,000 stores closed last year, the most since 2001. But the shift is deeper than the economic downturn. Thanks to changing demographics, including a steady decline in the percentage of households with kids and a growing preference for urban amenities among Americans young and old, the suburban dream of the big house with the big lawn is vanishing. The Metropolitan Institute at Virginia Tech predicts that by 2025 there will be a surplus of 22 million large-lot homes (on one-sixth of an acre [675 sq m] or more) in the U.S.

Environmentalists will celebrate the demise of sprawling suburbs, which left the nation addicted to cars. But all the steel, concrete and asphalt that went into making the suburbs can't simply be tossed out in favor of something new, even if it's perfectly green. That would be worse. "As much as possible, we need to redirect development to existing communities and infrastructure," says Kaid Benfield, director of the smart-growth program at the Natural Resources Defense Council. "Otherwise, we're just eating up more land and natural resources."

The suburbs need to be remade, and just such a transformation is under way in regions that were known for some of the worst sprawl in the U.S. Communities as diverse as Lakewood, Colo., and Long Beach, Calif., have repurposed boarded-up malls as mixed-use developments with retail stores, offices and apartments. In auto-dependent suburbs that were built without a traditional center, shopping malls offer the chance to create downtowns without destroying existing infrastructure, by recycling what's known as underperforming asphalt. "All of these projects are developer-driven, because the market wants them," says Ellen Dunham-Jones, a co-author of the new book Retrofitting Suburbia.

Not every suburb will make it. The fringes of a suburb like Riverside in Southern California, where housing prices have fallen more than 20% since the bust began, could be too diffuse to thrive in a future where density is no longer taboo. It'll be the older inner suburbs like Tysons Corner, Va., that will have the mass transit, public space and economic gravity to thrive postrecession. Though creative cities will grow more attractive for empty-nest -retirees and young graduates alike, we won't all be moving to New York. Many Americans will still prefer the space of the suburbs â€" including the parking spaces. "People want to balance the privacy of the suburbs with more public and social areas," says Dunham-Jones. But the result will be a U.S. that is more sustainable â€" environmentally and economically.

Here is the link: http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1884779_1884782_1884756,00.html

[stjr]

The Outer Beltway Project is already a project that will fail to meet expectations when finished.  Here is another notch in that belt from today's Florida Times Union - the charging of tolls:

In 1988, Duval County voters approved a half-cent sales tax in order to wipe out all the toll roads in the county.
Tolls disappeared in 1989. But a generation later they may be making a comeback.
The Florida Department of Transportation is attempting to build the 46.5-mile beltway from Interstate 10 in Duval County to Interstate 95 in St. Johns County as a toll road. The First Coast Outer Beltway would go through Clay County and be used by about 30,000 cars a day.
Portions of the existing Chafee Road will become part of the beltway. But most of the rest needs to be built.
Transportation District Secretary Charles Baldwin  said the road has to be tolled because the only way to construct the $2 billion project is with a public-private partnership.
The state plans to hire a company to build the road, and the company will then be in charge of maintaining the road and charging tolls.
It is not yet clear how many toll booths will be on the road or how much tolls will cost.
Fleming Island resident Mike Heemer  said the road is a bad idea that will only benefit the landowners and businesses around the road.
Heemer concedes that constructing the road is supported by many in Clay County. But he said a lot of people aren’t aware that it will be a toll road.
“I call it the First Coast Outer Tollway,” he said.
Heemer is also dubious that people will want to travel on a toll road after it’s built and says the portion of the  road from Green Cove Springs to St. Johns County won’t see a lot of vehicles.Pete Geiger,  a resident of Penney Farms in Clay County, expressed concern that the Outer Beltway would end up discouraging the construction of other roads in the area. He worries that a contractor would insist on a no-compete clause that would lead to the state putting lights and stop signs on other roads so that cars would use the Outer Beltway.
The public needs to watch the project, Geiger said, to make sure it is done in a way beneficial to the community and not just to the private company building the road.
In a speech to the Clay County Chamber of Commerce last year, state Transportation Secretary Stephanie Kopelousos  said public-private partnerships will be pursued for future projects because it will be the best way to do capital projects.
The interest in public-private partnerships comes during a time when the state of Florida is in a billion-dollar budget deficit, which means there may be less money flowing into the transportation department’s coffers. Denise Bunnewith , executive director of the First Coast Transportation Planning Organization, said tolls may be the only way to construct major projects in the future.
A poll taken by the planning organization last year found about 51 percent opposed to tolls.
Bunnewith said tolls are collected more efficiently now than 20 years ago. Electronic toll collections are now the norm in areas like Miami and Orlando, with cars being automatically charged when they drive through a toll collection terminal.
Short term there are no plans to toll any other roads in Northeast Florida. Baldwin said Florida 9B might end up as a public-private partnership, but that’s the only other road in Northeast Florida that might be tolled.
The first phase of construction of Florida 9B would go from U.S. 1 to Florida 9A and cost $170 million. The long-term plan is to connect Florida 9B to Interstate 95 before the road ends at County Road 2209 in St. Johns County. The cost of building the rest of the road is about $300 million.
Transportation department spokeswoman Gina Busscher  said the state still hopes to get funding to build Florida 9B. But if that money doesn’t come, officials will look into a partnership.

See http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-03-23/story/tolls_making_a_comeback_in_this_region

[Charles Hunter]

I've heard that if the Outer Beltway doesn't have tolls, it won't get built.  The state doesn't have the $2Billion needed.
Although a similar assessment could be made for a new highway connecting Jax with Tampa.

[tufsu1]

No new highways will be built in Florida without tolls....its the wave of the future and more popular as roads are at least theoretically paid for by user fees.

This has been the case now for over a decade (Central FL Greeneway, Suncoast Pkwy, Wekiva Pkwy, Polk Pkwy)....and for that matter, new lanes on existing highways such as I-95, I-595, and I-75 also will be tolled.

[cline]

The Outer Beltway Project is already a project that will fail to meet expectations when finished.  Here is another notch in that belt from today's Florida Times Union - the charging of tolls:

That's not really new.  I'm pretty sure the plan has been for it to be tolled since the beginning.  That is how the PPP will work.

[jandar]

And to be honest, I would pay the tolls to keep from having to enter Blanding/295 every morning, and I'm sure I am not the only one.

[thelakelander]

I wonder if they will attempt to add tolls on the stretch in Duval County.

[BridgeTroll]

I dont mind tolls to pay off the loan required to build the road.  The users of the road should shoulder most of the expense.  My problem is the toll needs to go away the very minute the bill is paid.  Open the gates and let the cars move freely.  When the toll remains to simply generate income it becomes a tax on the users.

Eliminate the toll when the bill is paid!

[thelakelander]

Will the actual bill ever be paid?  Like any other public service, toll roads typically don't make a profit, when you factor in annual maintenance costs.

[copperfiend]

And to be honest, I would pay the tolls to keep from having to enter Blanding/295 every morning, and I'm sure I am not the only one.

You probably aren't the only one.

[BridgeTroll]

There were tolls on various roads and bridges throughout Jacksonville.  The justification for the tolls is originally a good one.  The state or feds will not fund it and we cannot or do not want to raise taxes for various reasons.  If a road or bridge costs 100 mil to build then a toll is calculated to last for say 20 years or whatever it is expected to be.  At some point that bill gets paid by the toll.