Working Group: Springfield Revitalization Strategy

[thelakelander]

I agree that the best target for clustering or starting is Main, between 6th & 9th.

To the plan's defense, I don't think what was presented should be considered as a final product.  It really shows what stage the plan is in and it gives residents a chance to suggest ways to improve it.  Hopefully, those that don't agree with what has been presented so far will express their concerns and potential ideas that should be embraced within the plan.  In the end a better final product will be created for the benefit of all parties.

Stephen, can you go into further detail on the concepts of niching, branding, narrative based marketing and imprinting?

[sheclown]

thank you for posting this info!

[strider]

While I freely admit that I haven't fully digested everything presented so far, I have to ask why the 8th and Main area is being suggested as being the best to be first given this attention?   It appears to me that West 8th would be far better.

It already has new development -  Shands, VA( coming soon?) and Walgreens.

It is on the “fringe” so some of the new development will not be effected by the historic designation (lowers cost) but Springfield will still benefit.

It has been mentioned that the new VA building will/ may  include a restaurant that should be oriented towards street traffic. - involvement here first will work towards that?

It has a few existing businesses and structures while other sites have been prepped for new construction.

People are there now (for Shands, the school and other offices) and will come regardless of transportation improvements.

There are going to be transportation improvements, which will more effectively link Shands, FCCJ,  Downtown and other north side areas.

It is a major entry into Springfield so improvements can only help.

The park system begins (or terminates) on that section of 8th.  The parks and the houses themselves are, I believe, the two biggest assets Springfield has at its disposal.

New and better commercial development along 8th will naturally progress to Main and then branch out as needed and guided.

The area of Main and 8th has been tried before and hasn’t worked out so well.  It may not have been this concerted effort, but it was “viable” for a short time and then faltered for many reasons.  Seems like many will adopt a wait and see approach if that area is worked first.  Pulling from downtown doesn't seem all that viable either as downtown is struggling on its own.

Given the economic future we all are immediately facing, the extra “leg up” West 8th gives due to Shands, Et Al, seems the most likely to succeed.

A success at whatever is chosen to be “done” first is a must to insure that others will have the incentive to come fill in the blanks.

[JaxByDefault]

Under the current draft plan, SPAR is focusing on all three identified development clusters at once.

Strider, I agree that 8th West has a lot of potential and is a vital corridor linking SPR with Shands and the Interstate. However, a large portion of that strip is vacant land. In this economy, new construction starts are highly unlikely. While the economy is down, we would probably see more impact from improving and filling the existing storefronts; the best way to preserve our historic structures is to work toward making them commerically viable.

[uptowngirl]

JBD, if this is true then why let all the buildings A.) Sit and rot and then B.) get demolished?

When Vanhorn was hot and heavy on 8th and everything was roses, everything got knocked down and new buidlings were promised. Now vacant lots that collect trash... and we will just ignore it because hey, we still have SOME buidlings left so we will work on those now.

Sorry, but I live on the Westside forgive me if I am a little ticked off at the current strategy...to hell with those people (who moved into this neighborhood first and got it rolling) sorry we put all of our faith in Vanhorn and he screwed you, even AFTER you told us he was screwing you....

[thelakelander]

There really is no strategy at this point.  They are trying to develop one.  There are some ideas that have been expressed but nothing is concrete.  So its important for all in the neighborhood to participate share their views/solutions/ideas, etc. to help mold a final product that will actually work.

Uptowngirl, what type (or types) of retail strategy would you like to see implemented in specific areas of Springfield?

[strider]

 
Lake, I guess I was referring to this: I agree that the best target for clustering or starting is Main, between 6th & 9th.  I guess my concern is that just because the buildings are there does not mean they will come.  I also think that an investor coming in to buy retail space to lease out may very well rather build new over restoring old.  Isn't that why so many commercial buildings are already gone? As cash is king at the moment, will it not be whatever is the less cash outlay that wins?

Seems to me that one thing that will have to be determined is whether it will be more affordable for a new business to lease space in an old building or a newly built one?  How much will leasehold improvements be effected by that as well?  Add in the extra costs associated with any building or restoring within a historic district and I think parts of West 8th become even more attractive.

JBD, this -  Under the current draft plan, SPAR is focusing on all three identified development clusters at once. - bothers me as it seems like too much to chew all at once.  I realize that it is not possible to control where someone wants to open their business - 8th, main, 6th...but one can certainly make one area seem more attractive than the others.  I thought this was the goal to promote clustering. 

Another plus to "working" West 8th is that it will help clean up what is perhaps the worst area for blatant crime. Helping the overall reputation of Springfield in the process.

Just a quick comment about Van Horne.  Like a three act play where the first two acts were pretty good but the third act was lousy, Craig will forever be remembered for the third act.  Like him, hate him, makes no difference now, the play has closed. And because of him, there are a few good lots up for grabs that can help make a great West 8th in a few years. 

Part of my reasoning towards West 8th is that I believe it has been proven that the more “upscale” places many wish to see in Springfield can not make it here on the locals or even the normal influx from close by areas.   Shands as the draw could make the difference.  The fast food is there, some services, now add to that mix and water it, add some fertilizer and the only place it can grow to is Springfield.

[thelakelander]

Lake, I guess I was referring to this: I agree that the best target for clustering or starting is Main, between 6th & 9th.  I guess my concern is that just because the buildings are there does not mean they will come.  I also think that an investor coming in to buy retail space to lease out may very well rather build new over restoring old.  Isn't that why so many commercial buildings are already gone? As cash is king at the moment, will it not be whatever is the less cash outlay that wins?

Imo, it depends on "who is they?"  If you want to immediately fill 8th & Main with places like Matthew's, Panera Bread and Chew, you're fighting a losing battle.  If the short term strategy is to go after things that complement the existing businesses and neighborhood demographic needs then its not as difficult as one might imagine.  The cool thing about a neighborhood as diverse as Springfield is that every block has its own set of issues.  A good revitalization strategy should embrace that.

As for new construction, Stephen is right.  Its probably the most difficult thing to pull off right now.  This does not mean people should reject someone proposing new construction, but it would be bad business to put all your immediate available resources into only going after new construction projects and ignoring what's already in place.

[strider]

OK, you asked who I thought "they" is?  (Or is it are?) No matter.  I would think a place like Applebee’s, but not.  Or perhaps it would be Applebee’s?  In other words, more up scale than the Mickey's of the world, but not as upscale as say Outback or even Chilies.  A Red Robin comes to mind as well.  I use the major chains to illustrate the type of place but it could be an independent that caters to the same crowd.  One benefit to the chains is consistency and the ability to stay with those hours and menus while business builds.  Independents are often criticized because the menus and the hours change, even though those changes occur due to business and financial pressures.  I know that a properly run lunch only joint can be successful.  I also think that a good, solid family oriented dinner place could find it’s home right by Shands. To be honest, a Cracker Barrel type place comes to mind as they serve “comfort food”  which is what I think of as needed by the hospital.

We now have drug stores - one independent and one chain by Shands.  In addition, there are several within miles so that seems covered.  Though, a competitor like CVS or similar could like being that close to the Walgreen’s.  I believe Dry-cleaners is on the list of desired.  In today’s world, it only has to be a store front as the actual cleaning can be done at other locations so that is very doable.   As we just spent miles this past weekend looking for one (in VA), I guess Hallmark type stores are going away?  The Walgreen’s,  Et Al, doing them in?  Anyway, I would think that a type of Florist, card, ETC place would do OK. 

One thing I am going to do tomorrow/ Friday is drive then walk that part of 8th.  Try to get a feel for it and see if I still feel the way I do now.

How do you get  the walking traffic up to Pearl say?  Will they?  Or do you have to allow for driving/ parking everywhere?  As far as new or using existing buildings - one restaurant may be a chain and new. Gas is cheap again and people are on the roads.  95 could help justify it.  There is still cash out there as well as limited loans.  The others would be existing if possible.  More businesses would also force the Shell to be more…user friendly.  Or else competition would open up.   If the “comfort food” place was successful, would the area then interest other places - like a nice place at 9th and Main?

I am assuming though that the real reason "they" are not here now is not lack of potential clientele, but impressions and appearances of the area.  And that is a lot of what we are talking about trying to change, is it not?  We can't change the real demographics, but we can change perceptions.  By and by, someone from the “bus” (commercial development) recently informed me that they read this forum.  Who knows, say the right thing and maybe they will come and build it.

To my way of thinking, if you can get a better anchor at Shands on West 8th, then we can woo the customers down the road to the "urban commercial community" on Main.

[sheclown]

Don't forget the uniform shop on the corner of Pearl and 8th.  There is a lot of traffic from the hospital staff using that store -- so some are making their way down Pearl already.  Help that gas station on Perry be a safer place to stop and they may just fuel up on their way back from the shop.

[thelakelander]

The first thing I'd to with any plan for West 8th, is find out what the Shands master plan looks like.  Every now and then, things like new VA clinics and hospital wings sometime include limited retail like gift shops and restaurants.  Even if they don't, just having entrances along the street edge stimulates foot traffic.

An effort should be made to get whatever Shands has planned built at the street edge instead of being hidden behind gates, garages, parking lots and other buildings.  The same goes for FCCJ's campus.  These are moves that involve things that will already take place.  If implemented properly, they can also easily attract additional private sector development catering to the increased traffic flow.

A great example is 19th Street around UAB's Medical Center in Birmingham, AL.  The hospital facilities are adjacent to the street creating an environment where a number of small retailers survive successfully off the foot traffic the medical complex generates.  I spent some time in Birmingham and Memphis back in 2004.  I'll see if I can dig up some old images of this area.

[thelakelander]

Here are a few images from 19th & 20th Streets in the heart of UAB's Medical District.  Most of the medical buildings have urban entrances.  Many of the small buildings adjacent to them are filled with businesses catering to foot traffic generated by the medical buildings.  Depending on how Shands is encouraged to expand, West 8th could grow to have a similar feel.

[thelakelander]

Evidently, Shands also has plans for an 800 space garage to serve the new VA clinic and the hospital.  I would not be suprised if this will be built on the large parking across the street, on the southside of 8th.  If so, will the garage be designed to include street level retail space along 8th?  This would probably be the neighborhood's best chance for new construction retail along 8th in the next couple of years.  Also, once the VA clinic moves, what happens to the current building and garage?  What goes on here will have a strong impact on a commercial revitalization strategy along West 8th.

The Department of Veterans Affairs will build a new VA outpatient clinic blocks away from its existing center to handle its increased patient volume.

The new site, at 1640 Jefferson St. N., is near Shands Jacksonville. The building on the site, an old Methodist Hospital facility, will be demolished for construction of the new center.

Debbie Ward, administrative officer for Jacksonville VA Outpatient Clinic, said it is scheduled to open in winter 2007. Developers submitted bids to the federal government for the project last month, and VA officials will review and potentially select a developer by the end of September.

Patient visits to the existing clinic, at 1833 Boulevard St., have more than doubled since 1998. Ward anticipates the center to handle 120,000 patient visits this year and said the replacement facility will relieve the pressure at the clinic.

The new building will be double the size to 67,000 square feet and occupy one floor, rather than the four it does now. The larger space will be easier on veterans and staff, Ward said. The new center may have upgraded radiology and cardiology services.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/090204/bus_16532506.shtml

--

The Veteran's Administration is planning to build a new $5.4 million clinic to replace the old one at Shands Jacksonville pending approval from the city of Jacksonville planning department.

The 67,000-square-foot clinic, scheduled to be finished in 2006, will serve Jacksonville's growing veteran population, according to Jack Martin, project manager for the Real Property Service of the Veteran's Administration.

"The old clinic in Jacksonville, the one they have now, is small and outdated," Martin said.

The new clinic would offer primary care, radiology and ambulatory surgery services for veterans. Shands plans to begin clearing the site in January, and will build an 800-car garage that will be shared by the hospital and the clinic.

The clinic will provide 130 new jobs in Jacksonville.

http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2004/09/06/daily4.html

[thelakelander]

I may have stumbled upon a Shands campus master plan.  I wonder if JTA knows about the proposed roundabout at Boulevard and 10th?

[zoo]

Lake, great find with a lot of interesting things on it. Here are 2 more questions (I'm sure I'll have more when I can look at a blown-up version):

1. Is S-line incorporated on here at all? North/South of "Community Partnership" and "Regional Stormwater Management"?
2. What are all of the proposed buildings north of Shands (where HUD housing currently sits)? I see there appears to be some type of residential re-development in the yellow "Community Partnership" area?