Let’s Get Back to the Basics at JTA

[jaxlongtimer]

^ That looks like it would follow the hotel driveway (what would the hotel have to say about that or is that built in to their master plan?) and cut through JEA's water and electric utilities campus as I speculated above.  It would then have to somehow circumvent a building hugging the FEC tracks identified by Google maps as Gulfstream Contracting and then force some kind of change to the track and field at Landon Jr. High.  The proposed end at Southern Grounds appears to also be in use/privately owned.  And, how close can it hug the FEC tracks?  Is there really room for a double track and the separation needed at the end for vehicle reversal? 

Sorry, I don't see this path without a very large right of way cost and other technical issues.  For money, I am sure anything is possible but is it justifiable to my point.  Maybe in 2010 the pathway was clearer and that is now a lost opportunity?

Seems my suggestion to stop short of that behind the public library would be a lot easier to implement if even that could be done.

Sorry, but I think all this is dreaming as I have said before.  I just don't see an appetite anytime soon for expanding the Skyway.  It will be lucky for its proponents if it can just stay close to the way it is for now vs. shutting it down for good.  To your point, perhaps, if JTA had only focused on the Skyway and never pursued NAVI, the Skyway may have had a better chance of survival.  I said all along, NAVI was a potential knockout punch for it and the Skyway.  Two strikes in this case to an out.  Maybe curtailing bus service is strike three.

[thelakelander]

The average person doesn't have to "see" a path or try to answer the necessary widths, determine ROW needs, minimal turning radius for various technologies and rolling stock, cost estimates, where passing sidings must go, etc.

That's the purpose of doing unbiased planning, analysis and engineering studies, etc. with trained experts in the field. After the house is set back in order at JTA, Jax should start over with visioning what its regional public transportation should be before making any rash +$100 million decisions for any mode.

[jcjohnpaint]

The one thing I don't get is why the elevated tracks can't be used for another technology. Here in Jacksonville, I feel like they are looked at as only the obsolete cars can run on them, so we might as well tear the tracks down. When I travel to conferences, I always try and ride the streetcars. They are slow as they move in mixed traffic, always stopping for whatever obstacle they encounter on the streets. I usually give up and uber due to time restraints. Having elevated tracks getting out of mixed traffic is such a benefit.

[thelakelander]

The one thing I don't get is why the elevated tracks can't be used for another technology. Here in Jacksonville, I feel like they are looked at as only the obsolete cars can run on them, so we might as well tear the tracks down.

The elevated infrastructure can be used for another technology.

[jaxlongtimer]

First Diamond, now Howland.  Not usually in agreement with this crew, but on JTA they are "moving my way!" Exception would be cutting back on the Emerald Trail.  That should not be affected by JTA mismanagement.  The Trail is a great economic driver for Downtown and the greater urban area, so a worthwhile infrastructure investment.  Someone needs to release a study on the increased property taxes to be paid based on increased property values in proximity to the Trail.  Could be a better return than incentives given Downtown developers.

Howland says taxpayer dollars should prioritize services residents use daily.

"I think what we've got to do is we've got to rethink what is optimal transportation for the citizens of Jacksonville and the families and the businesses that depend on that transportation," Howland said. "I personally believe it's going to be optimizing fixed-route busing and paratransit, and it's probably going to be de-optimizing and scaling down things such as NAVI, the Skyway, and even some of the longer unfunded parts of the Emerald Trail. We need to get back to the basics, back to the core, and we need to deliver optimal transportation to the people of Jacksonville."...

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2026/10/06/jacksonville-leaders-debate-redirecting-30m-in-gas-tax-funds-to-rescue-jta/

[marcuscnelson]

^ So obviously I do think we have to optimize the buses and paratransit, hence this thread existing at all, but it does seem worth asking if as a City we're going to take any time to think about why we had to let things get to this point to have realized it was time to change course.

Nick Howland has been on City Council for four and a half years now. When he was previously asked about the U2C over two and a half years ago, he only had this to say:

I've really not had time to research in detail the U2C yet. It's been a busy few weeks on Council (Southbank storage, fuel depot, etc) and at The Fire Watch. We're about to announce that Northeast Florida has had the best 3-year veteran suicide reduction in the country. That's why I directed you to Jacoby. I know this is your passion. Can we meet on it in May and you can lay out all the issues with JA? I do want to see what you've learned.

I'd certainly like to know if he feels any regret about having not done that research by being so busy elsewhere. Might have saved some money, apparently!

Someone needs to release a study on the increased property taxes to be paid based on increased property values in proximity to the Trail.  Could be a better return than incentives given Downtown developers.

If Amendment 3 passes next month, I'm not so sure that'll remain true, especially with the presently suburban makeup of many of the neighborhoods outside of Downtown proper that the trails would run through.

[thelakelander]

I was the prime consultant for COJ's Durkeeville Revitalization Study in 2025. During the process of getting under contract in 2024, I had a few council members question my selection.

In a private meeting, one un-named CM who isn't on council anymore, told me he knew I was qualified but was upset about me publicly speaking out against the U2C. My immediate response was that "I don't know what that has to do with the Durkeeville study, but yeah I'm against it and if you want to question me about my position, I'm your Huckleberry.

I'm a professional in the industry and you're a politician. I'll rip you to shreads and anyone else behind it."

That NAVI convo immediately ended and the guy never questioned me again on it.

I smell ignorance with a lot of elected city leaders around the transportation talk. A bunch of buzz words without rational technical data to guide rash decisions.

I'd love for someone to post the top 10 to 20 transit routes in this town (regardless of technology), by ridership. Lets really see what essential services that the majority of transit users really looks like and then go from there.

[thelakelander]

As for many of these projects, there's another word I'll say is needed that many advocates will hate to hear. Its "value engineering." Budgets only stretch so much. We'll need to learn how to do more with less. That can easily be done without sacrificing quality. There are a lot of creative opportunities out there, once we reach the point to where we accept that fiscal reality.