Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus

[fieldafm]

According to the Property Appraiser, VC bought the site in late 2019.

Again, see above   They signed a purchase agreement for that site several years before, about the same time the behind-the-scenes lobbying for the UF campus started.

[thelakelander]

It should be pretty clear to those paying attention that the first phase of new construction (very likely the Semiconductor Institute) will include the COJ-owned lot that housed the former Crane building across from the Prime Osborn/JRTC. There's a reason why DIA outright rejected unsolicited proposals on this very site five years ago.  I don't think you'll see any redevelopment activity on the actual PO site for quite some time.

In terms of development phasing, this is a good approach. Let's fill in the large dead parcels between Bay and Forsyth, straddling Lee. The PO parking lot is out-of-site, out of mind. It also allows for time to figure the rail support needs, requirements and logistics on that parcel before gobbling up the opportunity with poor placement of future structures.

[jaxlongtimer]

A bit more info from the Florida Times-Union on providing for a rail station at PO:

...Deegan envisions that historic structure having restaurants, offices and similar uses along the lines of how Denver brought activity to its Union Station. The city will keep land next to the terminal to possibly build a future train station for passenger rail service.

The U.S. Department of Transportation awarded Jacksonville a $1.25 million grant in September for exploring a return of the site into being the rail station is once was while connecting it to other transit options. Deegan has called it an "exciting opportunity to restore the Prime Osborn to its glory."...

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/12/13/uf-campus-jacksonville-prime-osborn-convention-center-future/76951061007/

[Tacachale]

A bit more info from the Florida Times-Union on providing for a rail station at PO:

...Deegan envisions that historic structure having restaurants, offices and similar uses along the lines of how Denver brought activity to its Union Station. The city will keep land next to the terminal to possibly build a future train station for passenger rail service.

The U.S. Department of Transportation awarded Jacksonville a $1.25 million grant in September for exploring a return of the site into being the rail station is once was while connecting it to other transit options. Deegan has called it an "exciting opportunity to restore the Prime Osborn to its glory."...

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/12/13/uf-campus-jacksonville-prime-osborn-convention-center-future/76951061007/

Yes! This is a capacity grant that'll allow us to bring on staff focused on the train station project. The bill to distribute those dollars is moving forward very soon. It's one of the things I'm especially excited about.

[Charles Hunter]

A bit more info from the Florida Times-Union on providing for a rail station at PO:

...Deegan envisions that historic structure having restaurants, offices and similar uses along the lines of how Denver brought activity to its Union Station. The city will keep land next to the terminal to possibly build a future train station for passenger rail service.

The U.S. Department of Transportation awarded Jacksonville a $1.25 million grant in September for exploring a return of the site into being the rail station is once was while connecting it to other transit options. Deegan has called it an "exciting opportunity to restore the Prime Osborn to its glory."...

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/12/13/uf-campus-jacksonville-prime-osborn-convention-center-future/76951061007/

Yes! This is a capacity grant that'll allow us to bring on staff focused on the train station project. The bill to distribute those dollars is moving forward very soon. It's one of the things I'm especially excited about.

Please, please, please, don't give the study grant money to JTA. Let the City hire its own consultant, excluding any working for JTA.

[Ken_FSU]

You guys think UGA cares one way or another about this in terms of plausibly considering FL/GA a neutral site?

My guess is no, they're just looking at the $$$, but it will be an interesting wrinkle in the discussion.

[Fallen Buckeye]

You guys think UGA cares one way or another about this in terms of plausibly considering FL/GA a neutral site?

My guess is no, they're just looking at the $$$, but it will be an interesting wrinkle in the discussion.

It's a nice recruiting tool, too, since NE Florida has lots of prospects. As a Gator, I'm excited to see this take shape.

[jaxlongtimer]

I guess Palm Beach County got a $520 million consolation prize after losing out to Jax on UF.  Looks like Vanderbilt will be building a campus there that sounds like it mimics some of UF's intentions, albeit quite a bit less ambitious based on their plans.  Not sure why their numbers are higher than UF's $300 million for a much bigger campus but figure there is some hype involved to get everyone's blessing and/or UF will be spending a lot more than they start with. 

Wonder if this is now a thing in the world of universities.

Vanderbilt University gets approval for $520M Florida graduate campus

*Vanderbilt University on Tuesday secured approval to build a $519.6 million, 300,000-square-foot graduate campus in West Palm Beach, Florida, that could start hosting classes by 2026.

*County commissioners voted unanimously in favor of the Tennessee-based private university's expansion in the area. As part of the plan, the county would donate 5 acres of land worth $46 million.

*The added campus would expand Vanderbilt's graduate business school and include programming in artificial intelligence and data science as well as an innovation hub to connect the university with entrepreneurial activity in the area.

...In total, Vanderbilt expects the campus to have 1,000 students and over 100 faculty...

https://www.highereddive.com/news/vanderbilt-university-approval-520m-florida-west-palm-beach-graduate-campus/730825/

And..

Palm Beach unanimously approves land deal for Vanderbilt's new business and tech campus

In a unanimous vote on Oct. 22, the Palm Beach County Commission approved a deal to provide five acres of county-owned land to Vanderbilt for the development of a new campus in West Palm Beach. For several months, Vanderbilt has been in discussions with city and county officials and community and business leaders about establishing a presence in West Palm Beach to complement the region's booming financial and tech sectors. The affirmative vote by the county, along with two acres already pledged by the City of West Palm Beach, paves the way for the university to establish a new campus in South Florida focused on graduate programs in business, computing and engineering, bringing high-impact graduate education to what has become known as "Wall Street South."...

...Once operational, the West Palm Beach campus will welcome nearly 1,000 students in various business programs—such as an executive MBA and master's in finance—and in engineering and computing-focused fields such as artificial intelligence, data science, and computer science....

...Vanderbilt also plans to create an innovation hub on the campus that would connect local entrepreneurs with academic programming and research and create opportunities for collaboration with Vanderbilt faculty and students. This innovation hub would offer programs and opportunities for people in Palm Beach County and let the Vanderbilt community tap into South Florida's burgeoning innovation ecosystem....

....If approved, the university's vision for the campus is an expansion of the Owen Graduate School of Management, with a focus on finance, real estate and fintech....

....The campus in West Palm Beach would also offer graduate-level education in engineering, computing, data science and AI....

....A third-party analysis by the economic research firm TXP projects that the campus will generate an estimated $7 billion in economic activity and create approximately 35,000 jobs over its first 25 years...

https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2024/10/28/palm-beach-unanimously-approves-land-deal-for-vanderbilts-new-business-and-tech-campus/

[Jax_Developer]

Vandy in West Palm Coast would actually compete with top tier Universities like GA Tech & I'm not sure I see this a consolation at all. Vanderbilt is a very established engineering school - unlike UF which is now in the mix of top engineering schools. Also... WPB... I mean top tier location.

A lot of schools nationwide have now realized, 10 years late, that their engineering programs aren't set up to compete with the international labor pool in East Asia, India, Eastern Europe. They quite literally passed the CHIPS act because we have seen declining market control YoY for more than a decade in the overall industry. That is mainly due to the fact that other countries are investing heavily into materials, packaging & product design... which are skills that are arguably more important than having a masters in "AI" &/or "Semiconductors."

The future of the industry is having the management & project leaders domestic - with less important tasks & manufacturing being nearly 100% outsourced abroad.. another example of American Manufacturing being completely ripped out from under us (Anybody ever heard of Nvidia? Lol). These schools are unfortunately too late to impact high-tech.

I have no doubt these schools will positively impact hundreds, if not thousands of people... just don't expect any high-tech industry to follow these announcements. If there is: 1). Shocking & 2). We can all be happy we got something more substantial out of this.

[CityLife]

West Palm Beach didn't really lose UF to Jax as much as UF blew a golden opportunity there. There were 2 billionaire developers (Stephen Ross and Jeff Greene) fighting over land and naming rights to the new school. Greene also wanted a clawback on land he was donating if UF didn't maintain a certain number of students (I believe 1k). UF started looking at Jax and Stephen Ross got mad and started reaching out to elite out of state private schools. NYU was considered, as they are currently building a 200k square foot hospital in Downtown WPB and I heard some Ivy's were also looked at, but Vandy was the best fit.

Ross recently retired from and sold his equity in Related Companies, but spun out all of his WPB projects into his new company Related Ross. He also sold 13% of his share in the Dolphins. He's one of the best developers in the world, is cash flush, and is all in on WPB with one new office building recently completed, one nearly done, 3 more coming soon, and others in the works; plus some new high rise resi projects. https://www.relatedross.com/office  He also owns CityPlace is right in the middle of most of his projects and it is undergoing a huge transformation with a lot of cool stuff (including an Eataly). UF made a huge mistake not piggybacking on all of his success,  connections, and continued growth. Getting an elite university to offer grad programs with synergies with the businesses he is recruiting has always been a real estate play for Ross. That's why he has committed so much money and fundraised amongst his network. UF could have had it all, but ultimately, Vandy should make out like a king.

Some UF alumni in the real estate development world in South Florida I know are baffled at UF's decision to not play ball in West Palm Beach. There is some speculation that it was cost of living and cost of land related. Essentially, there is no way for anyone in UF's network to make money from the campus coming since Ross and other developers already own all nearby land...

As I've said in the other thread about this topic before, I'm glad this happened as an FSU grad and Jax native. A UF campus in WPB would have opened up all kinds of doors to mega donors and heavy hitting businesses and significantly increased it's national prestige. And ultimately, the Jax campus can save downtown. IMO, it's downtown Jacksonville and the urban core's last hope for long term financial sustainability.

[marcuscnelson]

I guess Palm Beach County got a $520 million consolation prize after losing out to Jax on UF.  Looks like Vanderbilt will be building a campus there that sounds like it mimics some of UF's intentions, albeit quite a bit less ambitious based on their plans.  Not sure why their numbers are higher than UF's $300 million for a much bigger campus but figure there is some hype involved to get everyone's blessing and/or UF will be spending a lot more than they start with.

My guess is that UF's renderings are not a $300 million campus, but more like a billion dollars after future phases. Vanderbilt might be doing more upfront but less than in UF's renderings.

West Palm Beach didn't really lose UF to Jax as much as UF blew a golden opportunity there. There were 2 billionaire developers (Stephen Ross and Jeff Greene) fighting over land and naming rights to the new school. Greene also wanted a clawback on land he was donating if UF didn't maintain a certain number of students (I believe 1k). UF started looking at Jax and Stephen Ross got mad and started reaching out to elite out of state private schools. NYU was considered, as they are currently building a 200k square foot hospital in Downtown WPB and I heard some Ivy's were also looked at, but Vandy was the best fit.

Ross recently retired from and sold his equity in Related Companies, but spun out all of his WPB projects into his new company Related Ross. He also sold 13% of his share in the Dolphins. He's one of the best developers in the world, is cash flush, and is all in on WPB with one new office building recently completed, one nearly done, 3 more coming soon, and others in the works; plus some new high rise resi projects. https://www.relatedross.com/office  He also owns CityPlace is right in the middle of most of his projects and it is undergoing a huge transformation with a lot of cool stuff (including an Eataly). UF made a huge mistake not piggybacking on all of his success,  connections, and continued growth. Getting an elite university to offer grad programs with synergies with the businesses he is recruiting has always been a real estate play for Ross. That's why he has committed so much money and fundraised amongst his network. UF could have had it all, but ultimately, Vandy should make out like a king.

Some UF alumni in the real estate development world in South Florida I know are baffled at UF's decision to not play ball in West Palm Beach. There is some speculation that it was cost of living and cost of land related. Essentially, there is no way for anyone in UF's network to make money from the campus coming since Ross and other developers already own all nearby land...

As I've said in the other thread about this topic before, I'm glad this happened as an FSU grad and Jax native. A UF campus in WPB would have opened up all kinds of doors to mega donors and heavy hitting businesses and significantly increased it's national prestige. And ultimately, the Jax campus can save downtown. IMO, it's downtown Jacksonville and the urban core's last hope for long term financial sustainability.

I mean this sounds like UF didn't have nearly as much to gain from WPB as Ross did, and it's not exactly their job to enrich a billionaire. And clearly they didn't find whatever other benefits worth the squeeze.

My hot take is that this campus is of course a promising development, but there's nothing preventing Jax in classic Jax fashion from failing to benefit from it. This could easily end as half of LaVilla becoming an academic fortress while the rest of the urban core barely changes. And at the same time, there's no guarantee that Downtown could not have continued to develop without the campus (which remember, didn't seem to be happening for some time). Winning the campus is not the end-all be-all, you still have to sell people on coming here. There's still work to do to make this and all of Downtown and the urban core a success.

[thelakelander]

I guess Palm Beach County got a $520 million consolation prize after losing out to Jax on UF.  Looks like Vanderbilt will be building a campus there that sounds like it mimics some of UF's intentions, albeit quite a bit less ambitious based on their plans.  Not sure why their numbers are higher than UF's $300 million for a much bigger campus but figure there is some hype involved to get everyone's blessing and/or UF will be spending a lot more than they start with.

My guess is that UF's renderings are not a $300 million campus, but more like a billion dollars after future phases. Vanderbilt might be doing more upfront but less than in UF's renderings.

The renderings are fluff at this point. No real analysis or working with the community and other impacted stakeholders yet to shape what will ultimately go up on the property. I can glance at the railside and know right off the bat, if the mayor really wants to see rail return to the Prime Osborn, some of those buildings in the rendering will either need to disappear or be built over future rail sidings and support buildings. However, creating a station area plan is what the $1.25 million rail grant is all about. So that plan will shape what happens with long term intill TOD (UF's buildings) on the Prime Osborn property. Plus, if I understand right, the semiconductor institute comes with a pot of its own funding. Some of the earliest construction will likely be related to it.

My hot take is that this campus is of course a promising development, but there's nothing preventing Jax in classic Jax fashion from failing to benefit from it. This could easily end as half of LaVilla becoming an academic fortress while the rest of the urban core barely changes.

Can't speak for all of downtown but can pretty much guarantee it won't be the same ole, same ole in LaVilla. The community is engaged, and expects to continue having a seat at the decision-making table......or flipping the table over if things go sideways. The ground is too sacred to let another Brooklyn or 1990s River City Renaissance fiasco go down. As of now, UF's plans are in alignment for the train station site to once again be LaVilla's primary economic engine with a level of density greater than Daily's gas stations, strip malls in Brooklyn and landscaped surface parking lots in the Northbank.

And at the same time, there's no guarantee that Downtown could not have continued to develop without the campus (which remember, didn't seem to be happening for some time). Winning the campus is not the end-all be-all, you still have to sell people on coming here. There's still work to do to make this and all of Downtown and the urban core a success.

I agree. There's no such thing as a one trick pony project. There's a ton of stuff going on, much of which isn't out publicly at the moment. Things are very different than what was the typical 5, 10, 15 years ago. The key will be to make sure everything swims in the same direction. That hasn't been the case in the past with downtown.

[landfall]

Lake, I know it's been a sort of side discussion on this thread as a consequence of the site choice but is there any wider desire amongst those involved to perhaps shift the CC over to the Hyatt?

The Ford on Bay and the mess with the Hyatt control over that land is another noose around the cities neck. It's a no brainer to me at this point. Please tell me it's not just message board chit chat!?

[thelakelander]

^I don't think the idea of the Hyatt is dead. There's been conversation outside of message board chit chat. I think the conversation of possibilities will heat up as the UF and return rail to the Prime Osborn talk begins to pick up steam.

[jcjohnpaint]

That is good to hear. Much more rational way forward.