Downtown Development Update: What's rising, what's delayed

[MakeDTjaxGre@tAgain]

^ the restaurant and cra for shipyards west, yes. But the developer said they would fund the riverfront plaza restaurant themselves I thought?

Also, Gateway did take some out of N8. How does it affect that project? N11 opens next week. Wonder if they would use some of that completion to help N8 to shuffle the numbers.

11/8 - Gaffney not recorded in the image above.

[Steve]

Good news.

In terms of the restaurants, there may be other ways to make those happen. I highly doubt this would happen without the completion grant.

[Charles Hunter]

Is the Riverfront restaurant off the table for good, or 'just' delayed a couple of years?
Is that the one that European Street was going to have?
As a consolation prize, can they have the Bier Garten under the Main Street Bridge?

[jaxlongtimer]

^ the restaurant and cra for shipyards west, yes. But the developer said they would fund the riverfront plaza restaurant themselves I thought?

Also, Gateway did take some out of N8. How does it affect that project? N11 opens next week. Wonder if they would use some of that completion to help N8 to shuffle the numbers.

11/8 - Gaffney not recorded in the image above.

"No's" from the usual anti-everything mafia.  I will say, after this, it's going to be hard getting such completion grants going forward given Amendment 3.

I feel for Deegan and future mayors navigating cutting services.  Amendment 3 should have been done by county.  Then, the fixed income retirees could have cut their taxes in South and Central Florida and let non-retiree dominated counties go in a different direction.

[fsu813]

Is the Riverfront restaurant off the table for good, or 'just' delayed a couple of years?
Is that the one that European Street was going to have?
As a consolation prize, can they have the Bier Garten under the Main Street Bridge?

No, not the European Street restaurant.

There are actually currently at least 4 restaurants planned for Riverfront Plaza. E Street, the beer garden (which is a defacto restaurant), whatever is hypothetically going into the Gateway tower, and the riverfront restaurant close to the Riverwalk. Probably more, as I doubt the tower would only have 1.

So this is regarding the riverfront restaurant near the Riverwalk. It will be paused. But it was always going to be a bigger challenge than what's been published. Some might say it's better to leave this particular spot undeveloped and used by the public, and focus on the success of the other 3+ restaurants in the park.

And after the discussion tonight, I wouldn't bet on significant incentives for a Gateway tower at riverfront plaza. COJ should listen to what some people *ahem* have been advising for years now, and scale back the vision for that development pad to something more affordable and timely, and less imposing. Think a 3-4 story development similar in concept to The Hub in Brooklyn. Infinitely more doable than a luxury tower in that spot, for the foreseeable future. But I digress...

[fsu813]

^ the restaurant and cra for shipyards west, yes. But the developer said they would fund the riverfront plaza restaurant themselves I thought?

Also, Gateway did take some out of N8. How does it affect that project? N11 opens next week. Wonder if they would use some of that completion to help N8 to shuffle the numbers.

11/8 - Gaffney not recorded in the image above.

"No's" from the usual anti-everything mafia.  I will say, after this, it's going to be hard getting such completion grants going forward given Amendment 3.

I feel for Deegan and future mayors navigating cutting services.  Amendment 3 should have been done by county.  Then, the fixed income retirees could have cut their taxes in South and Central Florida and let non-retiree dominated counties go in a different direction.

The state will have to figure out some work around. If they don't, business investment will stagnate and people/capital will choose to move and invest elsewhere. Not ten years from now, but two years from now. And that's untenable. Ron may not care, but Byron certainly does.

[MakeDTjaxGre@tAgain]

More random questions. With this getting approved, GJ usually buildout ground floors last according to their 2 current projects.

Would there be a case where they buildout the Publix shell to the point they can handover to Publix? Such that they have completed substantial amount of the apartments (at least topped, or only interior work needs to be competed) so there's no disruptions and Publix can operate while full buildout of the tower is being completed? After all, they have a garage before in N6 next door and N11/N4 would've been already completed. 

[jcjohnpaint]

Amendment 3 won't last. It just needs to last long enough for DeSantis's bid for president. It will break this state, stifle innovation and growth.

I do like the incentive project put forward. I think the other stuff, including the 22 story tower can find financing easier in other ways. As for the (do nothing) members of council... It is funny they blame Amendment 3, yet supported and voted for it.

As for the council members of both parties who worked to renegotiate, that is what leaders do. They do their job by using their brains to solve the problems the city faces. Even if you all disagree, at least the tried.

[Ken_FSU]

There are actually currently at least 4 restaurants planned for Riverfront Plaza. E Street, the beer garden (which is a defacto restaurant), whatever is hypothetically going into the Gateway tower, and the riverfront restaurant close to the Riverwalk. Probably more, as I doubt the tower would only have 1.

Per the Daily Record's description of Gateway's filing this week, sounds like two restaurants are planned within their proposed tower:

"Under a redevelopment agreement with the city, Gateway Jax would invest a minimum of $210 million in the tower, including a four- or five-star hotel or "luxury boutique hotel" with 130 to 170 rooms, 50 to 150 condominiums or rental units, a skyview terrace accessible to the public and a minimum of two full-serving restaurants comprising a combined 7,500 square feet."

So this is regarding the riverfront restaurant near the Riverwalk. It will be paused. But it was always going to be a bigger challenge than what's been published. Some might say it's better to leave this particular spot undeveloped and used by the public, and focus on the success of the other 3+ restaurants in the park.

Curious, what do you mean by bigger challenge? I'm of two minds on this one. I didn't love the concept of an exclusive, high-end seafood restaurant in the space. I think a restaurant that is more accessible day-to-day versus special occasion makes more sense in such a key public space. That said, I think it's pretty shitty of Jacksonville and the DIA to waste so much of the chosen operator's time and money in putting them through an RFP, negotiating for months, and having the lease drafted, only to pull out. It continues a long pattern of Jacksonville burning developer goodwill through bait, switch, and cancel RFPs. I don't think it's fair to blame Amendment 3 for the restaurant being iced. It was a choice to back out on an existing commitment.

I'd be less sad to see the restaurant go if the private development pad gets developed with dining options. I'm more sad to see the Shipyards West CRA parcel iced, as that area is a WASTELAND in terms of amenities without it. Hasn't been talked about much lately, but I'm hoping the Friendship Fountain restaurant is still moving forward as well. That would be a game changer for a spot that has quickly become one of the most vibrant downtown.

And after the discussion tonight, I wouldn't bet on significant incentives for a Gateway tower at riverfront plaza. COJ should listen to what some people *ahem* have been advising for years now, and scale back the vision for that development pad to something more affordable and timely, and less imposing. Think a 3-4 story development similar in concept to The Hub in Brooklyn. Infinitely more doable than a luxury tower in that spot, for the foreseeable future. But I digress...

This is going to be a fascinating one to follow. On one hand, I think I agree with you. A towering hotel & residential development, especially one that reads like a walled-off monolith from the park in the renderings, isn't the best use of this space.

Personally, I'd love to see something similar to Fifth+Broadway in Nashville. Little smaller scale, little more vertical, obviously, but same concept (Food Hall + restaurants/retail + live event space).



Where it gets interesting is that - Amendment 3 or not - we kind of implicitly promised Gateway Jax that we'd move forward with their plan - with a $20 million completion grant from the Northbank CRA - when we took the Interline building from them for UF. And if we don't play ball now, we could risk burning that relationship and having to pull $6 or $7 million from the general fund to reaquire the private development pad from Gateway Jax.

I'm 1000% fine putting things on ice that are speculative as the result of Amendment 3, but I do think it's a really bad look to back out on existing commitments. Others might disagree, but when we executed the land swap with Gateway Jax, knowing their plan for Riverfront Plaza, and knowing the required incentives to make it happen, we made a commitment to the project.

All that said, if it does happen, I think it needs to go back to the drawing board in terms of design. Specifically, in how it integrates (or doesn't integrate, currently) with the park.