No new coal plants?

[Driven1]

Solar Radiance:   4.99 kWh/sq m/day
Avg. Monthly Usage:   1,862 kWh/month
System Size:   15.48 kW
Roof Size:   1,548 sq ft
Estimated Cost:   $139,317.82

[uptowngirl]

I have priced it, and for of the grid, a small house starts at 60K.

Which would take about twenty years to recoup the cost. 

I could see spending $12k-$15k---> but no way would I spend $60k.

Here ya go UTG and Driven... Give it a shot!  There are many variables...

http://findsolar.com/index.php?page=rightforme

OMG this is the highest estimate yet!!!

Solar Power CalculatorSystem Specifications
Solar Radiance: Solar radiance (insolation) is the amount of
solar energy received on a given surface area
in a given time. Commonly expressed in
kilowatt-hours per square meter per day
(kWh/sq m/day). This measurement varies based
on weather and latitude of the given location.  4.99 kWh/sq m/day 
Avg. Monthly Usage: This is the amount of electricity you consume
on average every month. It is either determined
by your input or approximated by your electricity
bill divided by the cost per kilowatt hour in your
area ($0.1128/kWh).  4,876 kWh/month 
System Size: This approximation is for a system to produce
enough electricity to offset 50% of your yearly
electricity usage. It is determined by taking your
average daily electrical usage, and dividing that
by your (solar radiance x 80%). The 80% factor is
necessary in order to approximate for the inherit
inefficiencies in solar power systems (95% inverter
inefficiency x 89% weather impact on efficiency x 95%
inefficiency due to soiling, utility, and module
inefficiencies).  20.27 kW 
Roof Size: Approximate roof size needed to accomodate
your solar power system can be deteremined
by taking the size of the system and
dividing by 10 to get the square footage
(10 watts/sq ft).  2,027 sq ft 
Estimated Cost: The approximate cost is an estimation based
on a price of $9/watt. This is the average
rate, including parts and installation,
for systems above 2kW.  $182,440.00 

Incentives
Incentives for Jacksonville, FL

Federal Incentives
Tax Credit: 30% ($2,000.00 max)

State Incentives
Sales Tax: Exempt
Rebate: $4.00/W DC ($20,000.00 max)
Savings
Estimated Cost: The approximate cost is an estimation based
on a price of $9/watt. This is the average
rate, including parts and installation,
for systems above 2kW.  $182,440.00 
Post Incentive Cost: The post incentive cost is an estimation based
on the available credits/rebates for your area.
This may include kWh production incentives for up
to 25 years if applicable in your area. This
provides an approximation of the local/state
incentives, and should only be used as an
approximation.  $160,440.00 
Avg. Monthly Savings:  $342.37 
25 Year Savings: The 25 year savings is based on the amount
of electricity cost you save over a 25 year
period assuming a yearly 4% increase in
utility rates.  $171,099.63 
25 Year ROI:  106.64% 
Break Even:  23.99 years 

[BridgeTroll]

   But think of all that free juice in 24 years...

[uptowngirl]

  But think of all that free juice in 24 years...

It did say something about saving 221 trees 

[jandar]

I have priced it, and for of the grid, a small house starts at 60K.

My house to be off the grid is a cost of ~65K.

I have my AC set to 75F during summer, 68F during winter.
House is built in 2003.
I have every lightbulb replaced with a cfl.
I have two computers running full time (work related stuff and a server), both with E85 Power Supplies (both run over 85% efficiency).

My average electric use is 1200Kwh a month. Down from 1800 2 years ago.


My costs are just too prohibitive right now to justify Solar.
I do plan on supplementing later next year though, although I have informed my wife that the next house we will buy will be entirely solar powered.

[Bostech]

That doesn't include savings and incentives,also you might be able to shop around with other dealers to find better price.

This is where government could step in to find a massive deals for entire cities or parts of city,to lower cost.

Prices of homes went up past 10 years more then it cost to get solar system,imagine large discounts and putting solar on almost every house.You can add as part of house under mortgage,you are paying for house 30 years so why not add solar system as part of house.Eventually saving enviroment and money.

Got to think BIG.

[jandar]

That is my plan, the next house will have solar financed into it. Making my mortgage payment go up a couple of hundred, but completely offset by the no electric payment.


To retro just now though, I have to finance a 45K second mortgage, and my 35K student loans are more pressing.

[uptowngirl]

That doesn't include savings and incentives,also you might be able to shop around with other dealers to find better price.

This is where government could step in to find a massive deals for entire cities or parts of city,to lower cost.

Prices of homes went up past 10 years more then it cost to get solar system,imagine large discounts and putting solar on almost every house.You can add as part of house under mortgage,you are paying for house 30 years so why not add solar system as part of house.Eventually saving enviroment and money.

Got to think BIG.

I almost can;t believe I am saying this.... but I am on the same page with you BOS. I would LOVE to go solar, I have doen most of the  stuff jandar has mentioned, my issue is more around the fact that I have such an old house, without replacing all the windows and calking everything shut I have cut down as much as I can, without sweating myself to death (and everyone else in the house too) in the summer. I wish there was a way to make solar more affordable, but as long as the big power companies are around it is fruitless 

[thelakelander]

Uptowngirl and Bos agreeing on something?    Is it snowing outside?

[Bostech]

I alredy predicted it will snow this year.


You can always do what people in upstate NY do to save on energy and warm house...cover your windonws with plastic foil and put towels under doors.

[thelakelander]

Here's an article about the original story:

Palin knocks Obama over months-old coal comments
November 2, 2008
Posted: 05:48 PM ET

MARIETTA, Ohio (CNN) â€" Campaigning in coal country just two days before the presidential election, Sarah Palin is highlighting an interview Barack Obama gave to the San Francisco Chronicle in January in which the Democrat suggested coal plants would be bankrupted by his cap-and-trade proposal.

Audio of Obama’s comments began bubbling up on major conservative blogs over the last 24 hours, and Palin wondered why voters were only now hearing about the remarks. The insinuation that the Chronicle had been hiding the coal comments from the public brought about shouts of “Liberal media!” from the crowd.

“Why is the audio tape just now surfacing?,” Palin asked. “This interview was given to San Francisco folks many, many months ago. You should have known about this, so that you would have better decision-making information as you go into the voting booth.”

Contrary to her attempts to portray a media cover-up, audio and video recordings of Obama’s January 17 sit-down with the Chronicle editorial board have been freely available online for more than nine months.

In the interview, Obama said that his “aggressive” cap-and-trade plan would charge polluters for every unit of carbon or greenhouse gas they emit, a plan that would render polluting coal plants financially unviable.

“So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can,” he said. “It’s just that it will bankrupt them because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.”

In the interview, Obama also made the case for alternative energy sources, adding that he does not believe coal production will be eliminated, and that he supports carbon capture and sequestration technologies.

John McCain also supports a market-based cap-and-trade proposal to reduce carbon emissions.

Regardless, Palin sought to use Obama’s words against him in a part of the country where coal has long been king.

“He said that, sure, if the industry wants to build coal-fired power plants, then they can go ahead and try, he says, but they can do it only in a way that will bankrupt the coal industry, and he's comfortable letting that happen.”

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/02/palin-knocks-obama-over-months-old-coal-comments/

[Jason]

Great work Jandar.  I'm in the process of converting over to CLFs completely.  As each incandescent burns out I replace with a CFL.  My power consumption runs about 1,312kwh average versus the 1524kwh it used to run.  I've done other things to help with consumption as well.  The kicker is that the recent cost increases have negated any savings I would have seen.  My bill is pretty much the same as it was a year ago despite the fact that I'm now using less power.  Go figure!


IMO, user base solar power (given proper incentives) is the way of the future.  Utility generated solar power is super expensive and requires massive amounts of land per KW produced.   The consumer typically has the roof area necessary for enough solar panels to produce their own power, unless the home or buisness has a lot of tree cover.  Frankly, the average suburban home was built in the middle of cleared wetlands and has little to no tree canopy, therefore allowing solar panel to be installed on the roof.  The systems just need to be incentivised to allow the consumer the ability to afford it.

The other problem with the cost of the system is the batteries.  Typically, a home would share a connection with a solar system and the power company.  Any excess power the home generates would back feed the power grid and the utility would buy back the power, relieving the need for costly batteries.  In theory, during the day the home would supply enough excess power to spin the meter backwards enough that during the night the utility would essentially give it back.  With that system properly working, your power bill would esentially be zero.  The problem is that when the power grid goes down (an outage) the solar system would still be feeding power into the grid thereby causing potential danger to the linemen trying to restore system power.  Because of that danger, the utilities require a special relay to be buit in the the home based system that will disconnect the solar power to the home as well.  I know, what a crock!  IMO, the easy solution is for different unit to have the smarts to know that when the gird is down, it will not be allowed to feed power into it.

[BridgeTroll]

My house is probably 90% CFL.  I am also saving electricity by wrapping the hot water heater(old comforter) and turning off the hot water during the day when no one is home or when away on the weekend.  Try it... you will be surprised!  Of course you will be even more surprised if you forget to turn it back on and hop into a cold shower...

Where does everyone recycle CFL bulbs?  I have two of them that barely lasted a year.  Pretty expensive since they were supposed to last longer than conventional...

[Jason]

Home Depot


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/business/24recycling.html

[Jason]

Anyone else making the switch to CFLs?