Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan

[landfall]

It does look a lot more reasonable. Still a bit unsure of the market for a Four Seasons, but if they're confident enough to bring it back they must expect it to succeed somehow. I think it's also taller in these renderings, which I guess was so they could squeeze it into the Kids Kampus space.

Did they say anything of what the expected city contribution is? I know we'd own the performance center (for some reason) but I didn't hear what we'd be putting in as incentive to start.

I think if they can keep a lid on the public price tag in the ~$125-150 million range it could sail through. There's a different energy for the Jags than there was at the start of the year.

Other than the Four Seasons which I'd imagine will be heavily used for Jags purposes, much of the development looks strictly Jags related as opposed to the Cordish involvement. Dedicated Office Space for the Jags (plus probably AEW), a dedicated football facility, and also dedicated sports medicine facility in conjunction with Baptist Health. In Urban Meyers words it means players can stay in Jacksonville and be treated as opposed to going to Arizona or Texas. They're giving Urban Meyer everything he asked for.

As far as retail , probably a pro shop. I could maybe see a dedicated sports bar/restaurant type deal.

This campus setup they're aiming for looks very similar to Lambeau Field and the Packers.

[jaxlongtimer]

I think it's also taller in these renderings, which I guess was so they could squeeze it into the Kids Kampus space.

Did they say anything of what the expected city contribution is? I know we'd own the performance center (for some reason) but I didn't hear what we'd be putting in as incentive to start.

I think if they can keep a lid on the public price tag in the ~$125-150 million range it could sail through. There's a different energy for the Jags than there was at the start of the year.

Four Seasons moved to the Shipyards.  No longer on Kids Kampus.  Only number I have seen so far is asking City for $60 million for half of the football facilities.  We shall see if more shoes drop later, e.g. infrastructure, clean ups, etc.

[landfall]

I think it's also taller in these renderings, which I guess was so they could squeeze it into the Kids Kampus space.

Did they say anything of what the expected city contribution is? I know we'd own the performance center (for some reason) but I didn't hear what we'd be putting in as incentive to start.

I think if they can keep a lid on the public price tag in the ~$125-150 million range it could sail through. There's a different energy for the Jags than there was at the start of the year.

Four Seasons moved to the Shipyards.  No longer on Kids Kampus.  Only number I have seen so far is asking City for $60 million for half of the football facilities.  We shall see if more shoes drop later, e.g. infrastructure, clean ups, etc.

I think Lamping mentioned the buildings are raised from the ground reducing cleanup costs?

[marcuscnelson]

Checked the Daily Record:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-owner-shad-kahn-proposes-four-seasons-football-performance-center

The only reference to a city financial investment in the June 3 news release was that Khan and Iguana propose the team and city each pay $60 million to build the performance center.

The release says the $442 million first phase will include the performance center plus the 176-room and 25 residential-unit Four Seasons, a city-owned marina and a six-floor office building built on the vacant Shipyards property southwest of the stadium.

At the announcement, Lamping said the first phase cost was $321 million.

Phase two would focus on a 42,000-square-foot orthopedic sports medicine campus, 15,000 square feet of street-level retail and a 200-space-plus parking structure and possibly a residential component.

The Jaguars and Iguana did not provide a total cost of the second phase.

I'm questioning how there's already a hundred million dollar difference in the price tag... maybe the $442 million includes the performance center and the $321 million doesn't?

Also notable that a convention center is no longer in the cards. I wonder if they're satisfied with pushing for the jail replacement or waving the white flag to Hyatt and Riverfront.

Four Seasons moved to the Shipyards.  No longer on Kids Kampus.  Only number I have seen so far is asking City for $60 million for half of the football facilities.  We shall see if more shoes drop later, e.g. infrastructure, clean ups, etc.

Are you sure? This looks like where Kids Kampus is.

[jaxlongtimer]

I took it as the Kids Kampus was part of Metro Park as that is what I have always taken it to be part of.  If not, based on some legal technicalities, you may be correct.

However, Iguana was allowed access to the more than 8-acre former Kids Kampus, which is part of Metropolitan Park's 24.7-acre footprint, and the adjacent Shipyards site. It is not clear if Khan's plans include those 8 acres.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-owner-shad-kahn-proposes-four-seasons-football-performance-center

[Zac T]

I'm questioning how there's already a hundred million dollar difference in the price tag... maybe the $442 million includes the performance center and the $321 million doesn't?

Yes, according to the presentation the $321 million is the cost of the Shipyards component of the project.

[thelakelander]

I took it as the Kids Kampus was part of Metro Park as that is what I have always taken it to be part of.  If not, based on some legal technicalities, you may be correct.

However, Iguana was allowed access to the more than 8-acre former Kids Kampus, which is part of Metropolitan Park's 24.7-acre footprint, and the adjacent Shipyards site. It is not clear if Khan's plans include those 8 acres.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-owner-shad-kahn-proposes-four-seasons-football-performance-center

It's pretty clear that the Four Seasons would be built on the grave of Kids Kampus. There is a fence that separates former Kids Kampus from Metropolitan Park. It appears that the fire station and Fire Museum would have to be relocated.

[fieldafm]

Also notable that a convention center is no longer in the cards. I wonder if they're satisfied with pushing for the jail replacement or waving the white flag to Hyatt and Riverfront.

A Four Seasons is typically split between a hotel component, amenities like spas and restaurants, for-sale condotel units that are used by the buyer as a hybrid vacation/rental property and between 15k-20k square feet of meeting space.

The plan, as is my understanding, is that this Jax development would include a little more robust on-site meeting facility.  Keep in mind, that having a hotel next to the stadium also allows the team to attract business events that would also utilize the stadium facilities.  The Touchdown Club, Terrace Suites, Dailys Place, etc are all used for various kinds of events.    Effectively the stadium's existing facilities would be at worst on par with the Hyatt's current offerings, and at best much better as the hotel accommodations are nicer, there are far more flexible types of facilities, and the total amount of business meeting space is effectively larger than what the Hyatt could offer. 

My expectation is that in future stadium upgrades that we'll be talking about in a few years, will include even more expansion of the type of in-stadium facilities that can be used for event-rental purposes. 

[Alex Sifakis]

Thoughts on the Jags announcements today.... put this in the "Renderings" thread but figured I would stick it here too.

For the Shipyards - Love this concept and this plan. A Four Seasons definitely changes the playing field downtown. Very fired up the Jags are going about this the right way, though the DIA.

For the football facility - seems like a no-brainer.  Currently COJ is obligated to pay for all facilities, and to maintain them, but in this scenario we get a world class facility (ideally to attract and develop better players!) and Shad is going to pay for half, AND agree to cover all maintenance and operational costs going forward.

Home runs all around.

[fieldafm]

Currently COJ is obligated to pay for all facilities, and to maintain them

I think that's a big semantical.  COJ is in fact keeping up with their lease terms.  The practice facilities, workout rooms, etc are all presently being paid for and maintained by COJ.  The current lease doesn't necessarily envision a scenario where the Jags basically say that the current facilities are inadequate, we are going to abandon them, and we want you to pay to build new off site facilities.

That said, I have no problem with the new facilities.  They are part of a larger strategy to upgrade the existing stadium incrementally (we couldn't afford a new stadium with a price tag north of $1.5billion), and allow the team to continue to operate on site while stadium improvements occur gradually over several off seasons. 

It was also smart of Kahn to say that the Jags would pay maintenance costs.  I think a lot of elected officials were shocked when they started to realize how much the electricity bill was for the new scoreboards, once they came online. Surprises like that don't seed good will.

I don't like the fact that the Jags have basically said that the new flex field that was completed a few years ago is now useless and they don't want anything to do with it any longer.  COJ Parks will now 'program' it. That sounds better in theory than in practice. The Parks Dept budget is not robust.  They have a hard enough time finding money to pay for their current summer programs, like the nightime basketball league, etc.

$45mm in public 'cash' for Four Seasons and office building, which includes moving the fire museum and upgrading the marina... is far better than the Lot J deal.... where taxpayers were fronting most of the cost, and likely putting in more cash than the developer was.   

I like that the Jags will be keeping and basically upgrading MetroPark. It will be the first time in basically 40 years that Met Park will have a dedicated funding source.  This gets around the NPS issue.  I like how the buildings on the Kids Kampus are situated, basically keeping the exisiting JEA easements in tact (there are underground power and sewer lines that run right through the open areas between the Four Seasons and office buildings that ultimately cross underneath the river).  The way they've structured the site plan and keeping MetPark open and make it function better with the surrounding development is smart.

Overall, this looks tremendously more positive than what Lot J was. 

I know for a fact that Lamping has been meeting with tons of people getting their thoughts and buy-in. Its a marked improvement.  This is, and has always been, a big small town.  Demands from the bullypulpits don't work, but Jaxsons have shown time and time again that they will rally around a big idea that has involved community buy-in from the start. Its the reason why the Jaguars even exist.  My mom and I waived signs at Regency Mall and got people to sign up for club seats back in the early 90's to prove to the NFL that we deserved an expansion team. 

[jaxlongtimer]

Just wondering... with the removal of the Hart Bridge ramps, how will the increased traffic in this area from Shad's planned development impact the traffic flow off of/on to the bridge?  How is it working during Stadium, Arena, Baseball and Daily's events so far?

[Peter Griffin]

Just wondering... with the removal of the Hart Bridge ramps, how will the increased traffic in this area from Shad's planned development impact the traffic flow off of/on to the bridge?  How is it working during Stadium, Arena, Baseball and Daily's events so far?

The project isn't complete yet.

[landfall]

https://player.vimeo.com/video/556311640

[marcuscnelson]

I wonder if there's any possibility that we could move Spandrel. Seeing how they haven't exactly done much, and the negotiations sound like they'll essentially require a restart on bidding, maybe it would make some sense to find some similarly sized parcels elsewhere, perhaps down Bay Street in the Shipyards? Seeing as the Khan developments will require things like the Fire Museum moving, and MOSH coming to the area, it might be a decent enough deal to find them some space, say, across from Maxwell House? They could end up positioned between the Berkman 2 replacement and the growing "Museum District," clear the way for Riverfront, solve the Hyatt problem, and put some effort into getting that area finally developed.

In terms of the Landing property, it seems most respectful of the effort put in to let the competition finish, and if we choose to proceed in more serious talks with Atkins and his group, bring the winning designers in to reconcile their choice with the proposed development. That way we don't throw all the work we've put into the idea of a park in the garbage, and can even start on building it independent of the actual development agreement, in case that takes some time.

It seems to me that a lot of ideas like these are going to be needed at the DIA in the coming months as they try to work out how to manage this proposal and the work they've already done. And an aside, maybe it was a good thing after all that we didn't accept the offer from Jacobs last summer to spend half a billion dollars on just a convention center.

[Ken_FSU]

https://player.vimeo.com/video/556311640

They did an amazing job with this video.

Has to be the slickest renders I've yet seen for Jax.

Video does a much better job explaining their vision than just the images.