Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan

[landfall]

https://twitter.com/1stdowntownjax

^Linked to he Jags announcement tomorrow.

Usual glossy build up. I'm predicting a four seasons, practice fields/sports medicine on the shipyards and the big bonanza, request for public money to put a roof over the stadium ala Miami, because if you don't we'll go to San Antonio or St. Louis.

[marcuscnelson]

https://twitter.com/1stdowntownjax

^Linked to he Jags announcement tomorrow.

First Down Town? Really?

[jaxoNOLE]

https://twitter.com/1stdowntownjax

^Linked to he Jags announcement tomorrow.

First Down Town? Really?

I mean "Touch Down Town," grammatical issues aside, just seemed a tad presumptuous after a 1-15 season,  so....

[jaxlongtimer]

City Officials will once again take a trip to another city to see how they 'transformed' their downtown and in 2022 we will get a fresh new set of renderings! Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

The thing that's so dumb about this is they really can just drive a couple of hours and check out Jacksonvilles neighbors. Orlando, Miami and to a lesser extent Tampa and St Pete have gone through huge changes in the last decade. Downtown Orlando is barely recognizable compared to 10 years ago. The Brickell area of Miami is also massively improved. Orlando is a great example of getting as many residential units downtown as quickly as possible. Brickell is a great example of building up mixed use buildings and shopping / entertainment and combining it with monorail, bike and bus infrastructure.

Every city I visit, I'm blown away by how far behind downtown Jacksonville is and how so little has changed in 25 years compared to other cities. They all also have at least 2-3 unique things to entertain tourists. There's really no compelling reason to visit Jacksonvilles downtown area and stay if you're from another city / state.
The art museums are ok, but nothing really stands out that's a must see other than cummer... Which isn't in the core. 
Mosh is so outdated and small it's like visiting a time capsule. 
There's no connected shopping.   
There's barely a connected bar area. 
The convention spaces are the smallest and worst in the state. Daytona and Jacksonville shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence, yet they have just as good of a space. 
The hotels are all disconnected. Unless you're visiting a specific office building for a work trip, good luck feeling safe walking to anything afterwards. 
No movie theater, escape room, bowling, mini golf or anything of the like to entertain families. 
Other than memorial park, none of the parks are well maintained or contain anything unique to draw in people. Friendship fountain was cool for about a year after it's renovation and then immediately fell into disrepair and has been basically a stagnant pool for a decade. 
The over abundance of soulless ground level parking lots and for business use only garages sucks the life out of entire sections of the core. 
I could go on and on.   
 
Sorry I just needed to vent. I've been a member of this site for so long and it's soul crushing how horribly managed my home town is.

Yes. Jacksonville leaders should write a book on how "Not to plan for a Downtown."  As we have checked virtually every box anyone could imagine for screwing up a downtown, it would be an encyclopedic authority on same.  At least someone would benefit from our experiences.  I can see other City chambers saying "Let's visit Jacksonville, Florida, to learn what not to do to screw up our city.  The people there are experts at this." 

Most successful people credit their success to lessons learned from their failures.  We are the exception as we never learn.

[Charles Hunter]

Jags press release has gone out.

10:30 AM tomorrow.

Urban Meyer will be part of the presentation.

There's no universe where the Jags can ask the city to subsidize their new standalone football facility, is there?

THIS iteration has GOT to be the ONE to TRANSFORM the urban core ... look! even the coach's name is URBAN!!

[jaxlongtimer]

https://twitter.com/1stdowntownjax

^Linked to he Jags announcement tomorrow.

Usual glossy build up. I'm predicting a four seasons, practice fields/sports medicine on the shipyards and the big bonanza, request for public money to put a roof over the stadium ala Miami, because if you don't we'll go to San Antonio or St. Louis.

Make that a retractable roof.  We don't want second class for our stadium.  It's OK for the rest of the City but not there.  And don't forget a convention center!  Surprise us and announce that Flex N Gate is moving its HQ's here .

I wonder if they have cut a deal with the Fair Grounds.  Would tie in nicely with Shad's $1 million to improve the Eastside area around it.  Just like his donation for MOSH to enhance his interest in the Shipyards.

[Florida Power And Light]

Well..... of all of the proposals and " Renditions" I have witnessed over the past many decade(s)....... this is Another.
The view of the vessels stern to shore, European Style...... backed up to a sea wall with no dock..... Ha!.... even with no Dock , which actually depicts current Sordid Downtown Waterway Condition; former existing floating docks absent for the longest time...... a storm event. No doubt the absence of docks due to some " Hiatus" .(Not to be confused with Miami Herald Carl Hiaasen and his Editorial piece " Jacksonville's Millionth Mania" Downtown event, reference to Florida Power And Light user by name.... Ha! )  what a ridiculous image, the " Artist Rendition" misses the reality of River Current, water depth in front of the boats/ forward anchor.....
Oh, excuse me...... have I lost some of you? Join the club, Mr. Sleiman missed the same insight during his round of Artist Rendition......."Marina" /Docks at the Landing shoreline..... sticking out there..... at short distance from the Landing shore the docks are out there headed towards water 45, 55, 70 foot deep. Strong tidal flow.A " Marina" could be " Done" no doubt, but not worth asking the public to pay for it.
The " Marina" would become noted for its Demanding Vessel Handling Aspect. Worse than our harbor competitors in the Carolinas. And pretty much elsewhere.
What a Hoot for so many involved, maybe involved, some might be involved, some might really really be involved, some might be involved if you think about it, or even if you don't....... But Hey There ! Anchor Man! Mort Crim, what say you???

Downtown ( Development) Authority as unaware as any entity..... Next!!
Why is it that Downtown Development Authority hardly never ever, never  engages on this forum , in some formal authoritative manner?

Big Yawn, other than Special Note; Jacksonville's Southern Gracious Porch, Landing Property ( Public.... do not forget) remains Open Space.
Not worth a half billion from the public...... shucks man, worth far more......... (          ).

[thelakelander]

From the Biz Journal on Spandrel/Ford on Bay:

After a several month hiatus due to the Covid-19 pandemic hitting shortly after the company was selected in February 2020, Spandrel and the Downtown Development Authority have been hashing out a term sheet for the deal.

The company's current plan differ significantly from its winning bid, DIA CEO Lori Boyer said Tuesday, leading to the potential of the process being reopened in some way.

"The primary thing they're concerned about is the quantity of retail they committed to, and they're also concerned about some of the design elements and other things," Boyer told the Business Journal on Tuesday. "Some of those factors were instrumental in the scoring and their award in the first place."

It is unclear if the current process would be halted and restarted or if the city could use what is known as a negotiated disposition. Under that scenario — which the DIA is allowed to pursue as a community redevelopment agency — Spandrel and the city could work up a plan and turn it into a notice of disposition.

A decision on how the DIA will proceed is likely to be made in three to four months, Boyer said.

After a year and a half in limbo, while material costs skyrocket, still doesn't seem to be any urgency to get something moving here.

By October, the DIA will decide how to proceed.

Which means that, by January 2022, a new RFP will be issued.

Which means that, a year from now, we might have the framework of a development agreement.

Many here said years ago when those buildings were blown up that this property would sit empty for another decade. It sucks to be right because it simply means we're continuing to miss opportunities for quick revitalization and implementation that takes advantage of good economic cycles.

[Ken_FSU]

https://twitter.com/1stdowntownjax

^Linked to he Jags announcement tomorrow.

Usual glossy build up. I'm predicting a four seasons, practice fields/sports medicine on the shipyards and the big bonanza, request for public money to put a roof over the stadium ala Miami, because if you don't we'll go to San Antonio or St. Louis.

I actually get a sense that the Jags have learned a lesson from the Lot J catastrophe.

Doubt we'll see them say straight out that their arrogance and sense of entitlement during a pandemic sank Lot J, but I do think we'll see a different tone from the Jags tomorrow, with a big focus on transparency and their insistence on going through the full DIA process for any new development. I think they'll be more upfront about resiliency as well.

I also think (original) Metro Park will be a focus as well. The Jags supposedly want to take the lead on improving the original 14 acre Metropolitan Park and making it into a genuine asset for the area (along with a secondary park between MOSH and the Four Seasons/Medical development). They want to overhaul the marina as well.

Will be curious to see if they stand by the insistence that the hotel will carry the Four Seasons flag, or if they present it more generically as a luxury hotel. Either way, I think there will be a residential element to the hotel as well.

The medical center and standalone training facility will be interesting in terms of whether they're separate buildings or not. I'd think they'd almost have to be. Baptist and the Jags have been talking about partnering on an orthopedic center since last year, but I'm not sure how you'd mix team facilities, coaching offices, film auditoriums, etc. in with a Baptist ortho center. Plus, if Shad Khan promised Urban Meyer a standalone facility, it feels like you could probably get shovels in the ground years earlier if you built adjacent adjacent to the stadium rather than across the street at Met Park.

Should be fun.

These things never seem to end up going anywhere, but I'm hoping with all the positivity post-draft, lessons learned from Lot J's failure, $150 million more in the Jags coffer each year from the new TV deals, and increased oversight from the DIA, we get a good plan that the public is behind and that paves the way for an eventual long-term extension of the lease.

[marcuscnelson]

Many here said years ago when those buildings were blown up that this property would sit empty for another decade. It sucks to be right because it simply means we're continuing to miss opportunities for quick revitalization and implementation that takes advantage of good economic cycles.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like we end up feeling that "it sucks to be right" an awful lot.

Why is it that Downtown Development Authority hardly never ever, never  engages on this forum , in some formal authoritative manner?

Not worth a half billion from the public...... shucks man, worth far more......... (          ).

Why would they? Only makes sense to engage here if you're really concerned about doing better. It's not like they're at risk of losing their jobs or anything.

In terms of the Riverfront, personally, I wouldn't necessarily blame the city for being concerned about the prospect of paying for this. Half a billion dollars is a lot of money. It is nice that this seems at least somewhat more accurately scaled for its cost compared to Lot J, but nonetheless I don't think it's out there to not be a fan of the public cost between this and whatever Khan presents tomorrow. It'd probably help if it was clear that city leadership was really ready to be visionary on responsibly investing and tying everything together, but seeing as that's not the case there's a lot of reason for people to have little confidence in the idea of a billion dollars on downtown projects.

[jcjohnpaint]

Personally, I feel the Trio is more interesting and feasible than any of this stuff in the next 10 years.

[Ken_FSU]

Starting in two:

https://www.jaguars.com/live

[landfall]

Well, it seems the "Master Plan" and "1stdowntownjax" don't clash in anyway which is good. Jags adding dedicated stand alone practice facility, sports medicine and office space separate from the stadium in the sports district. Ground floor retail space in the office building and football facility.

The Four Seasons proposal also remains.

[jaxlongtimer]

Early on, this is looking much better than their prior proposals.  Not touching Metro Park or Fair Grounds at all.  Paying half the costs and all the maintenance for the player facilities.  Moving Four Seasons to Shipyards area.  Including more retail.  Other than a few Four Seasons residences appears to be more focused on office/hotel. Coordinating with DuPont Fund on Riverfront Parks Now plans and will donate $4 million for Metro Park improvements.

Will see what details follow.  Of course, the elephant in the room will be the upcoming ask for stadium improvements.  This appears to be an effort to earn goodwill in advance of that.  It also shows that killing Lot J was a good thing.  Having the Four Seasons at the Shipyards is a much better spot for it than Metro Park too.  More centrally located and better surroundings.

[marcuscnelson]

It does look a lot more reasonable. Still a bit unsure of the market for a Four Seasons, but if they're confident enough to bring it back they must expect it to succeed somehow. I think it's also taller in these renderings, which I guess was so they could squeeze it into the Kids Kampus space.

Did they say anything of what the expected city contribution is? I know we'd own the performance center (for some reason) but I didn't hear what we'd be putting in as incentive to start.

I think if they can keep a lid on the public price tag in the ~$125-150 million range it could sail through. There's a different energy for the Jags than there was at the start of the year.