Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....

[Ken_FSU]

As I had said in a previous post, and based on Marcus posted experience, someone needs to figure out what this will cost per actual passenger mile and make a comparison to almost any other mode of mass transit to show the silliness and fiscal irresponsibility of this project.  Maybe one of the Council opponents could get the Council auditor to do so.

I think the ultimate way to kill U2C is for someone or group to compile cost per passenger mile (using JTA's most optimistic numbers, even if totally unrealistic) and show that cost in comparison to buses, Uber, Waymo, street cars, BRT, etc.... almost any other transit mode one can find.  Throw in horse and buggy even (can a horse be autonomous?  ).  We all know that U2C will be far more costly.

Then, publicize like crazy the results and embarrass the heck out of U2C supporters.  And, hope the City Council wakes up and puts their foot down if JTA doesn't back down voluntarily (a very unlikely scenario but maybe the board smells the coffee and overrides the staff).

Would also like to better understand what we're on the hook for in terms of grant repayment if this thing is canceled or shuts down. I have a feeling it won't be cheap to walk away from this boondoggle.

[marcuscnelson]

^ The good news there is that unlike the Skyway, the bulk of the cost of this was actually paid for by JTA and other local partners. The federal and state obligations only amount to about $25 million. The bigger issue perhaps would be that they might not be very inclined to trust JTA with taxpayer money next time unless there are some changes in decision-making that could restore confidence. Not to mention still needing to actually deal with the Skyway like this was all supposed to be about a decade ago.

[fsu813]

NBC News feature on the autonomous shuttles being pioneered in West Palm Beach:

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/self-driving-shuttles-mark-major-test-for-public-transit-243534405579

One of the brief, "interesting/feel good" feature segments near the end of the Nightly News cast.

[Charles Hunter]

It must be F*ke N*ws!  Everyone knows that JTA is light-years ahead of the entire world in developing automated vehicle technology for transit!

I saw the story, too, and was going to post it here. Got distracted with other things. Thanks, fsu813, for sharing!

[thelakelander]

What are they doing that's any different from this several years ago?

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/autonomous-shuttle-service-launches-in-orlando/

[jaxlongtimer]

I just watched the NBC report.  WPB's shuttle looks almost identical in nature to U2C... smallish vehicles with a backup person in the vehicle and a drone controller at HQ's.  Like U2C, nowhere near autonomous.  It also is on a one mile test run only.  What doesn't appear similar is that JTA built a $40+ million control center... in WPB, it looks like regular office space with some desktop monitors and a steering wheel.

Regardless, this is just another example of how far away this tech is to delivering on its promises... in WPB, Jax or anywhere else.  And that U2C isn't any more advanced than what is being done elsewhere... it's not special, leading edge, or financially or functionally feasible.

Waymo is "way better" and it would be a no brainer and much cheaper to build a system around that than starting with these projects if someone wanted to be at the leading edge of the technology.

Just counting down the days when U2C boomerangs on its supporters.  Sadly, in the meantime, we taxpayers are the only ones being taken for a "ride" on U2C... and not the one JTA is selling.

[CityLife]

I just watched the NBC report.  WPB's shuttle looks almost identical in nature to U2C... smallish vehicles with a backup person in the vehicle and a drone controller at HQ's.  Like U2C, nowhere near autonomous.  It also is on a one mile test run only.  What doesn't appear similar is that JTA built a $40+ million control center... in WPB, it looks like regular office space with some desktop monitors and a steering wheel.

I don't believe there is a driver in the vehicle. It appears that the driver is solely operating from the operations center. Also, the WPB shuttle looks identical in nature to the shuttles the U2C initially proposed, not the Sprinter Vans JTA is currently using:

This is WPB's shuttle:



This is what JTA showed in a lot of early pitches about the project and in test runs:



This is the NAVI Sprinter Van in use now



What is really crazy about this is I live 20 minutes from downtown WPB. I've recently talked to VP's at Circuit (who are are a partner in this) about partnering on a project elsewhere. I'm friends with people at the Palm Beach TPA and am generally plugged in to things around here. This thread is the first I have heard about the autonomous shuttle test program. There has been no beating of the chest about leading the world (until this report). There have been no major public investments. Minimal media coverage. Just people quietly getting things done.

As we have all been saying all along, autonomous technology will evolve rapidly and may look wildly different in 3 years, 5 years, 10 years and so on. It's going to be hilarious when so many other cities implement autonomous shuttles for 1/10th of the cost as JTA and without hard costs like the $40 million autonomous center.

[jaxlongtimer]

I just watched the NBC report.  WPB's shuttle looks almost identical in nature to U2C... smallish vehicles with a backup person in the vehicle and a drone controller at HQ's.  Like U2C, nowhere near autonomous.  It also is on a one mile test run only.  What doesn't appear similar is that JTA built a $40+ million control center... in WPB, it looks like regular office space with some desktop monitors and a steering wheel.

I don't believe there is a driver in the vehicle. It appears that the driver is solely operating from the operations center. Also, the WPB shuttle looks identical in nature to the shuttles the U2C initially proposed, not the Sprinter Vans JTA is currently using.

At 1:23, the report verbally says there is also a transit person riding in the vehicle to take control due to requirements of the Feds/NHSTA. So +1 with the added drone driver vs. a single bus driver.

My comparison to U2C vehicles was, as you note, to the intended ones, not the Ford vans now being used.

[thelakelander]

This is really no different from what has been out there for years. That person with the Playstation joystick is the "attendant" (umm human driver), that steps in to do the things that the technology can't consistently deliver on. That was law years ago and it still is. All of this stuff is a big experiment. Not a critical piece of any real mass transit network. Unfortunately, Jax is getting taken for a big expensive ride with this nonsense. Why we are spending millions in local tax dollars on this, instead of real mass transit solutions, is one of the dumbest moves in our history.

[jaxlongtimer]

Someone finally found a use for the Skyway that will actually bring a crowd.  Expect the turnout to exceed a full year of Skyway riders  .  LOL, JTA appears to be a sponsor... I guess if you can't go up the hill, you go down.

One of the city's hottest dance parties returns Saturday, October 4th, to downtown Jax Skyway!
This year's party in the sky will feature 20+ musicians, DJs, and entertainers + interactive art, food stations from some of our favorite, local restaurants, and more over three immersive Skyway platforms: Paradise Platform, Central Saloon, and Space Station.



https://www.904happyhour.com/article/skyway-social-returning-to-downtown-jacksonville-october-4th

[fsu813]

Someone finally found a use for the Skyway that will actually bring a crowd.  Expect the turnout to exceed a full year of Skyway riders  .  LOL, JTA appears to be a sponsor... I guess if you can't go up the hill, you go down.

One of the city's hottest dance parties returns Saturday, October 4th, to downtown Jax Skyway!
This year's party in the sky will feature 20+ musicians, DJs, and entertainers + interactive art, food stations from some of our favorite, local restaurants, and more over three immersive Skyway platforms: Paradise Platform, Central Saloon, and Space Station.



https://www.904happyhour.com/article/skyway-social-returning-to-downtown-jacksonville-october-4th

The 2024 edition sold out.

[thelakelander]

Maybe they can have a U2C social to get a bunch of photo ops to make it seem like people are riding it lol.

[fsu813]

"

Maybe they can have a U2C social to get a bunch of photo ops to make it seem like people are riding it lol.

"Hey, do you wanna party in my van?"

[Todd_Parker]

"

Maybe they can have a U2C social to get a bunch of photo ops to make it seem like people are riding it lol.

"Hey, do you wanna party in my van?"

[Charles Hunter]

Maybe they can have a U2C social to get a bunch of photo ops to make it seem like people are riding it lol.

They would have to extend the hours of the U2C since the Skyway Social does not start until 6 PM.

Interesting that they are not doing this to encourage and introduce use of the U2C - provide parking in the Stadium area, and ride the U2C to the Central Avenue station/venue. Perhaps they are concerned about the limitations of the AV in navigating at night?