Pilot e-scooter program in downtown Jacksonville hits some bumps in the road

[thelakelander]

Yes, that's a risk that goes up in this situation. If you just want e-scooters going, then that's a good thing. If you want downtown to become a vibrant place, the pilot failing is a bad thing.

[WAJAS]

To throw another hat in the ring, I've also been using them as a first/last-mile solution.

[Adam White]

To throw another hat in the ring, I've also been using them as a first/last-mile solution.

I am sure some people do. But - and I could be totally incorrect - it is my experience that Jacksonville's public transportation system is far too anemic and under-utilised at the moment for these scooters to really fulfil their destiny as a last mile solution.

[thelakelander]

Our infrastructure in downtown is fine for e-scooters. It's better than what people will find in other cities with this program like Memphis, Orlando and Atlanta.

[Adam White]

Our infrastructure in downtown is fine for e-scooters. It's better than what people will find in other cities with this program like Memphis, Orlando and Atlanta.

Well, as I said, I could be totally incorrect.

My point was that 'last mile' generally means someone is using another form of transit (like a bus or train) and then using the scooter for the short last leg of the journey. In my experience (commuting by bus), not a whole lot of people used the bus in Jacksonville - not compared to a lot of larger cities.

But I accept that you know more about this stuff than me.

[MusicMan]

It's only a matter of time before someone on a scooter going the wrong way down a street gets hit by a car.
Whose fault will it be when that happens?

[thelakelander]

^It will be the fault of the person breaking the law. Btw, over the last month, I've been in Atlanta, Miami, Charleston, Orlando and Gainesville. In each downtown, I've noticed people riding bicycles, scooters and cars down the wrong way of streets. Two hours ago, I watched a guy ride a motorized bicycle the wrong way down Orange Avenue in downtown Orlando, almost getting hit while also running red lights. On the same drive, I observed another guy run dead smack through a red light at OBT and the East West Expressway. The light had to be red for at least 10 seconds. Two miles down the street, three cars had crashed, obviously as a result of someone pulling out into traffic without looking. I say all this to say....whatever, one has seen in downtown Jax is not unique...other than these other cities having busier streets.

[Ken_FSU]

It's only a matter of time before someone on a scooter going the wrong way down a street gets hit by a car.
Whose fault will it be when that happens?

Easy answer - it's the scooter driver's fault.

Same with the pedestrian jaywalking into traffic (far more common than scooters going the wrong way).

Same with a bicycler or skateboarder going against traffic.

Worth pointing out though that the scooter drivers aren't riding the wrong way down one-way streets to be hooligans. They're riding the wrong way because the streets downtown are a tangled mess of illogical stupidity that don't operate like the normal streets you see everywhere else in the city.

Just because I've gotten use to driving six blocks out of my way each morning in a wide meandering rectangle just to park in the Duval Street garage doesn't mean it makes sense to the less frequent downtown visitors.

Maybe, just maybe, the problem ain't the youths.

[Ken_FSU]

^It will be the fault of the person breaking the law. Btw, over the last month, I've been in Atlanta, Miami, Charleston, Orlando and Gainesville. In each downtown, I've noticed people riding bicycles, scooters and cars down the wrong way of streets. Two hours ago, I watched a guy ride a motorized bicycle the wrong way down Orange Avenue in downtown Orlando, almost getting hit while also running red lights. On the same drive, I observed another guy run dead smack through a red light at OBT and the East West Expressway. The light had to be red for at least 10 seconds. Two miles down the street, three cars had crashed, obviously as a result of someone pulling out into traffic without looking. I say all this to say....whatever, one has seen in downtown Jax is not unique...other than these other cities having busier streets.

Was in Nashville for a conference last week and was super impressed by how well most people followed the rules on scooters.

Big part of it, which Jax sorely lacks, was dedicated scooter/bike lanes and clear directional signage.





Free short term parking all over the place too, as opposed to Jax tripling our rates.

[bl8jaxnative]

Speaking of Nashville, any word on a state takeover?  The cities racked up so much debt they're in danger of not merely going bankrupt but some Tennessee laws kicking in that would have the state come in and run it until the mess is cleaned up.

Regardless of that, the main point is to keep in mind all those bachelerettes boozin in the Gulch and on broadway, the green paint for a "lane" on a sidewalk, those shiny new projects w/ free hour parking, may owe a lil too much of their existence to the city taking on too much debt.


one example:
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/15/nashville-property-tax-tennessee-comptroller-warns-takeover-budget-shortfall-unbalanced-budget/5810621002/

[Ken_FSU]

Speaking of Nashville, any word on a state takeover?  The cities racked up so much debt they're in danger of not merely going bankrupt but some Tennessee laws kicking in that would have the state come in and run it until the mess is cleaned up.

Regardless of that, the main point is to keep in mind all those bachelerettes boozin in the Gulch and on broadway, the green paint for a "lane" on a sidewalk, those shiny new projects w/ free hour parking, may owe a lil too much of their existence to the city taking on too much debt.


one example:
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/15/nashville-property-tax-tennessee-comptroller-warns-takeover-budget-shortfall-unbalanced-budget/5810621002/

Nashville will be fine.

If nothing else, they'll outrun it.

I stopped counting cranes at about 40.

Middle of the week, every bar was packed, every hotel was booked, a wait at every restaurant.

Had a chance to meet the head of Nashville Tourism, and the list of major events they have coming in the next 12 months dwarfs our events for the last 12 years.

Oracle just paid a quarter billion dollars for 60 acres of land in East Nashville and is bringing in almost 9,000 jobs.

Tennessee needs Nashville more than Nashville needs Tennessee.

[MusicMan]

They could have bought all the downtown waterfront acreage in Jax for that much money, with leftovers to boot.

You have to wonder, whose job is it to bring those big firms/corporations to Jax, and are they doing the job?

[bl8jaxnative]

Speaking of Nashville, any word on a state takeover?  The cities racked up so much debt they're in danger of not merely going bankrupt but some Tennessee laws kicking in that would have the state come in and run it until the mess is cleaned up.

Regardless of that, the main point is to keep in mind all those bachelerettes boozin in the Gulch and on broadway, the green paint for a "lane" on a sidewalk, those shiny new projects w/ free hour parking, may owe a lil too much of their existence to the city taking on too much debt.


one example:
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/15/nashville-property-tax-tennessee-comptroller-warns-takeover-budget-shortfall-unbalanced-budget/5810621002/

Nashville will be fine.

If nothing else, they'll outrun it.

I stopped counting cranes at about 40.

Middle of the week, every bar was packed, every hotel was booked, a wait at every restaurant.

Had a chance to meet the head of Nashville Tourism, and the list of major events they have coming in the next 12 months dwarfs our events for the last 12 years.

Oracle just paid a quarter billion dollars for 60 acres of land in East Nashville and is bringing in almost 9,000 jobs.

Tennessee needs Nashville more than Nashville needs Tennessee.

I'm not trying to pick a fight.  I can appreciate that view.  But  none of that addresses the legal issues around the city's debt.     Once can have a lot of growth + still have so much city debt that the state steps in to sort things out.

So that's why I'm curious for some _insight_.

That said, to be clear, I do appreciate your reply.  It's a good reminder that the city is doing well in a lot of ways.  And it's a good point to make that even if it does happen, it's not going to change things. 

They could have bought all the downtown waterfront acreage in Jax for that much money, with leftovers to boot.

You have to wonder, whose job is it to bring those big firms/corporations to Jax, and are they doing the job?

haha, true, true. 

I'd think though the question is how to get it all started.  Or maybe it has.  Oracle didn't decide to invest in that Nashville campus cuz of that one thing ( note, I'm not trying to say music man somehow was implying that at all ).  20 years ago Oracle wouldnt' have done that with Nashville. 

Nashville got there cuz of all that growth.  They're no longer hick.  They've got a strong creative group of folks that have flooded the city.  Not just for music but for design + other things.

[Zac T]

Orlando is extending their scooter pilot program to January 2022. Same as Jax, some residents love them and use them to get around day to day and others hate them and view them as nothing but toys with careless riders. Sanford and other Central Florida cities are looking to start their own micro-mobility programs.

Micromobilty soon may be a long-term mode of transportation in the city of Orlando. City commissioners on July 19 extended the scooter-share pilot program end date from July 31 until Jan. 3, 2022. The program, which allows up to 1,800 electric scooters on the streets of Orlando, was set to expire July 31.

The extension of the program — which allows up to 1,800 electric scooters on Orlando's streets — will give the city more time to examine data collected during the pilot, and develop a request -for-proposal (RFP) process to issue scooter firms the long-term ability to operate in Orlando. The city expects to select up to three firms to operate in Orlando, Transportation Director Tanya Wilder said. The RFP is set to be released this month.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/07/29/e-scooters-roll-toward-wider-adoption-orlando.html

[Ken_FSU]

Looks like Bird entered the market overnight.