Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020

[Steve]

I actually like the clawback idea. Perhaps with a timeframe, something like "20 years after the Money is disbursed" or something like that.

It offers the taxpayers SOME protection.

[Steve]

According to Chris Hong @ the T-U, Gaffney stated, "God has communicated there are 13 votes to pass Lot J"

I guess we don't need to vote now.

[fsu813]

According to Chris Hong @ the T-U, Gaffney stated, "God has communicated there are 13 votes to pass Lot J"

THAT'S MY COUNCILMAN! ❤ DISTRICT 7 HAS BEEN ANOINTED!

[Captain Zissou]

According to Chris Hong @ the T-U, Gaffney stated, "God has communicated there are 13 votes to pass Lot J"

I guess we don't need to vote now.

The most jacksonville thing i've seen in a while.

[thelakelander]

Lol, how about also sending a few winning seasons the Jags way?!

[CityLife]

I've seen politicians use some clever ways around Sunshine Law, but using God is next level.

[jaxlongtimer]

According to Chris Hong @ the T-U, Gaffney stated, "God has communicated there are 13 votes to pass Lot J"

I guess we don't need to vote now.

I speculated on this in an earlier post.  Gaffney may be representing the Eastside but, first and foremost, he is representing Curry.  When I observed his comments in meetings, early on, it was clear he was supporting Lot J, facts be damned.  My perception is this is his SOP for anything the mayor puts in front of the council.  The question is why?

[landfall]

Trying to get a sense of the number of people that will visit this. Lamping's estimate on numbers felt generous IMO.

I was thinking how many events at the Sports Complex draw 5k plus. 8/9/10? Jags games games. 36 Icemen games, 72 Jumbo Shrimp. Plus theres also the Florida Georgia game, the Gator Bowl and the Florida Florida State baseball game. I think they estimated 35-40 annual events in Daily's place when it opened. Does anyone know if you can find an event history or have any idea how many concerts/events Daily's Place and the Arena do? Do the Sharks still draw decent attendances?

I suppose you have other things like the Fairgrounds and other misc Jags events, i.e. training camp and draft night. I am guessing the Jags hope that Lot J will also provide a "hub" for fans to congregate at on Sundays for road games, likewise college football saturdays. Looking at Power and Light and Ballpark Village, their atrium type venues seem to hold a lot of concerts and events as well, i.e country bands and then big events planned around major sporting events i.e Superbowls and USANT soccer games. I expect they'll make a big push for the "weekend crowd". People wanting to drink, dine and/or party on friday and saturday nights.

[thelakelander]

^It's a smaller Landing. The Landing drew more than 4 million annually before 2010, according to DVI.

[jaxlongtimer]

^Might check with Visit Jacksonville on event attendance.  I know at one time they use to publicize in the newspaper the number of attendees at conventions and events in town but haven't seen it in years.  I am guessing it is still around, just have to ask for it.

[Fallen Buckeye]

So many loud-mouthed Gator fans in this city, so few degrees 

Hey now. I got my Masters from UF! May need to revise those math courses in Tallahassee to add a review in basic counting skills.

I love the idea of shifting the project to the adjacent lots, but I don't think they'd be keen on that. After all, Shad wants the 4 Seasons in Metro Park. Leaving a parking lot between that hotel and one of the main attractions might be a hard sell.

[thelakelander]

^That's what people say but the reality is there will be no 4 Seasons or anything else on Metropolitan Park before Lot J opens (ex 2026 or 2027) or negotiations involving the stadium begin. So there's no reason why figuring out and paying for the Lot J parcel can't take place and be included within the stadium improvement figure. Only in Jax do we drop an insane amount of money on things that could be completely avoidable if we were willing to view things from a higher and longer term level and then plan and implement accordingly.

[Ken_FSU]

^Spoiler: The Jags are putting the $65 million towards renting an actual breadbox.

Another City Council meeting on Lot J just ended.

Not a lot coming out of it, besides the final seven items starting to take shape that there's no agreement on.

Lamping conceded that the Jags are fine waiting until January 7th for a vote and support the City Council taking their time to vet the deal, though I think a lot of this might stem from a realization (voiced from several of the fence-sitters at the last public meeting) that a rushed vote probably isn't advantageous to the Jags.

It's interesting to try to read into these meetings, particularly in terms of who attends and who doesn't, but right now, a couple of council members seem to be probable no votes at this point:

1) Carlucci (still beating the same drum about an independent market study and about not fleecing season ticket holders (I'd personally be more upset about the underprivileged/underserved community than NFL season ticket holders struggling to get by)
2) DeFoor (she hasn't been able to hide her bad attitude/disapproval about this thing since that first workshop she hosted with Carlucci; requested a $150 million clawback provision today, which went over with an already cranky Mark Lamping about as well as you'd expect)

The following Council members I've got as definite yes votes on my Lot J bracket:

1) Gaffney (would vote yes twice if he could)
2) Cumber
3) Bowman
4) Diamond
5) Newby
6) Freeman
7) White
8 ) Pittman

Fence-sitters feel like:
1) Becton (who's been very vocal but hard to read about which way he'll ultimately vote)
2) Salem (he seemed like more of a yes coming out of this meeting than he's been yet)
3) Dennis (he's worried about the size of the spend and where it's going to leave our borrowing capacity going into other asks)
4) Hazouri (for a guy who's constantly complaining about City Council not getting their questions answered, he's now showed up at exactly 0 of these Q&A workshops; I think he ultimately votes yes)

The other five council members, I've got no clue, but judging from the fact that most haven't attended many meetings, I'd be more inclined to think that they've been yes votes from the beginning than no votes.

IF Becton and Salem swing yes, or Becton and Hazouri vote yes, I have a hard time thinking there's much of a chance that this thing gets voted down.

Also, I know he's got his rep, but watching Paul Harden in action gives me new respect for how good this guy is at doing his thing and greasing the wheels.

Another Council meeting today.

Another no-show by Hazouri (making the most outspoken guy about unanswered questions a perfect 0% in workshop attendance).

Moving Boylan into the definite yes category, and Salem into the very probable yes category.

I also get the sense that there's a real chance that Dennis could vote no as well.

If I'm Vegas, the over-under on no votes is looking like 4.5 right now.

If DeFoor and Hazouri's new proposed clawback amendment passes (which I don't think it will), I think it'd be close to unanimous.

Despite the vocal anti-Curry sentiment, Dennis told News4Jax that he's leaning yes on the project.

15-4 is my final prediction.

Carlucci, DeFoor, Hazouri, and one other random no.

Maybe Becton, maybe one of the other council members who's been absent/silent on the proceedings.

[jaxlongtimer]

Interesting info re: economic impact of NFL teams cited by Parvez Ahmed, professor of finance at University of North Florida, in his column in the Florida Times-Union:

Data from the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis shows that among the top 20 metro areas, ranked by personal income of its citizens, only nine have an NFL team. Many do not have any major league sports teams. Despite boasting an NFL franchise for nearly three decades, Jacksonville ranks 122 out of 384 metro areas in terms of per capita personal income.

Full column at:  https://www.jacksonville.com/story/opinion/columns/guest/2020/12/12/guest-column-subsidies-pro-sports-teams-make-little-economic-sense/6512672002/

[jaxlongtimer]

Nate Monroe lays another log on the Lot J fire.  This time, the twisted game over Metropolitan Park to accommodate a Four Seasons for Khan.  A few pertinent quotes:

So now, the city would be taking on the expense, the administrative burden and all the manpower required in undoing an eternal promise to maintain one park, only to have to clean up a nearby piece of land and convert it to a park (a multi-million dollar project), just so Khan's Four Seasons can be a few thousand feet closer to the stadium. The entire plan almost seems designed to be as inefficient, costly to taxpayers and complicated to figure out as any possible alternative...

...The irony is that if Lot J actually turned out to be what the Jaguars claim it will be — a new urban "neighborhood" that catalyzes all sorts of future development in the area — it would become a residential magnet in need of a park in rough proximity and size to Met Park, which itself could use more foot traffic. The dilemma simply speaks to the tortured and scattershot approach the city is taking to downtown development. All its hopes are pinned on the whims of one man, who seems to change his mind pretty often and happens to not have taxpayers' best interests front of mind all the time (that's what city officials are supposed to protect).

Full article at:  https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2020/12/17/jaguars-land-swap-done-deal/3929334001/