RE: Homosexual Marriage & Christianity?

[Driven1]

You haven't lived until the saudi authorities insist you attend a public execution.  There have been huge mistakes in the Iraqi war, abu gharib amongst them.  But I always remeber the executions we attended, and the attention  that was payed to us by the locals.   What ever we have done it doesn't compare to the beheading of woman for adultry

i've heard the exact same thing civil.  had clients that worked 25 years in Saudi for AramCo.  Said within a few weeks of being there they were in town and were pushed to the front of a large crowd and forced to watch a public beheading.  they were then told that this is how Sha'ria law operates and they were now also under Sha'ria law.  islam is a religion of peace though.

[jeh1980]

I believe in God's design for marriage. The union of one man and one woman.

And what does God's design for marriage say about divorce and having children out of wedlock?  Don't these acts disgrace God's design just as much as say one man and another man getting married?  In fact, aren't these two disgraceful acts the real reason why families in America are so troubled?  Or do you still blame the two gay people down the street, raising a child together?  Sadly, I find most Christians ignore and will quickly forgive someone who has divorced, or mothered a child out of wedlock.  In my mind, the sins of an unwed mother and the sins of two men getting married would be equal.  Both go against God's design.  Unfortunately the issues are treated very differently, would you not agree?  I respect your belief, 1980, but find all of the hypocrisy that surrounds this issue very troubling.

To be honest with you, even though christians like me believe in the sanctity of marriage(one man and one woman), I also believe that we shouldn't be so petty and cruel against people who are united in this gay marriage thing. I would reach to them with love as if they're not gay. We must understand that gay or straight, that person is still God's creation. Even if they're two men or two women married to each other, their still God's creation. But bottom line, even though homosexuality is sin (and it still is) God still loves them because He sent His only son, Jesus to die for their sin so they all can be saved.

[civil42806]

I believe in God's design for marriage. The union of one man and one woman.

And what does God's design for marriage say about divorce and having children out of wedlock?  Don't these acts disgrace God's design just as much as say one man and another man getting married?  In fact, aren't these two disgraceful acts the real reason why families in America are so troubled?  Or do you still blame the two gay people down the street, raising a child together?  Sadly, I find most Christians ignore and will quickly forgive someone who has divorced, or mothered a child out of wedlock.  In my mind, the sins of an unwed mother and the sins of two men getting married would be equal.  Both go against God's design.  Unfortunately the issues are treated very differently, would you not agree?  I respect your belief, 1980, but find all of the hypocrisy that surrounds this issue very troubling.

To be honest with you, even though christians like me believe in the sanctity of marriage(one man and one woman), I also believe that we shouldn't be so petty and cruel against people who are united in this gay marriage thing. I would reach to them with love as if they're not gay. We must understand that gay or straight, that person is still God's creation. Even if they're two men or two women married to each other, their still God's creation. But bottom line, even though homosexuality is sin (and it still is) God still loves them because He sent His only son, Jesus to die for their sin so they all can be saved.

A very nice reponse all wont agree with you but a  very civil comment

[TheProfessor]

I never understand why the United States always prides itself on division between church and state, yet when it comes to sexuality the "Christian view" is always referenced.  Note that the US has many religions other than Christian.  Just because a man has feelings for a man or a woman for a woman does not mean they are any less of a person.  Homosexuality has been going on since the beginning of time.  It is not like it is a new invention.  Just like abortion. (not that I think its good)  You can place all these laws restricting it, but the reality is it's not going to go away.  We give illegal aliens rights as citizens, yet a gay man or woman cannot get married and are treated as second class citizens.  Gays have contributed so much to our society.  Look at Johnny Mathis, James Dean, Elton John, Anderson Cooper, and even our governor Charlie Crist. Gays are everywhere, get used to it and open your mind.  They give back more to society than they take!

[Driven1]

I never understand why the United States always prides itself on division between church and state, yet when it comes to sexuality the "Christian view" is always referenced.  Note that the US has many religions other than Christian.  Just because a man has feelings for a man or a woman for a woman does not mean they are any less of a person.  Homosexuality has been going on since the beginning of time.  It is not like it is a new invention.  Just like abortion. (not that I think its good)  You can place all these laws restricting it, but the reality is it's not going to go away.  We give illegal aliens rights as citizens, yet a gay man or woman cannot get married and are treated as second class citizens.  Gays have contributed so much to our society.  Look at Johnny Mathis, James Dean, Elton John, Anderson Cooper, and even our governor Charlie Crist. Gays are everywhere, get used to it and open your mind.  They give back more to society than they take!

i don't think i disagree with a single statmeent you said.  i just happen to think (is it still OK to have an opinion different from the liberal one??) that marriage has been and always should be between one man and one woman.  that's all. 

[TheProfessor]

I'm glad you don't disagree. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  I think a person should be able to marry anthing they wish.  Whether it be their pet pig or a cactus.  If it makes them happy then by God go for it!  No law control what the minds of its people will create.

[Driven1]

I'm glad you don't disagree. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  I think a person should be able to marry anthing they wish.  Whether it be their pet pig or a cactus.  If it makes them happy then by God go for it!  No law control what the minds of its people will create.

I agree that people are going to do very bizarre things - regardless of the laws.  The only part of your statements this time that I disagree with is the "by God" part. 

[TheProfessor]

Why not. You don't believe in God?

[Driven1]

Why not. You don't believe in God?

Ah, but I do my friend.  Not only believe in Him, I know Him. 

And that is the precise reason that I didn't agree with the "by God" phrase in how you used it.  The bizarre and ungodly things that man may choose and make up to do are NOT "by God".  They are by man.  God is holy, set apart and it would be blasphemy to say that the creative ways we come up with to sin are "by" Him. 

[TheProfessor]

I think you misunderstood what I said. I said "by God" as in "with God."  I think you should have faith in God in all you do even if you don't know its written to be wrong in some book, such as the bible, koran, tora, constitution, etc... I may be a Christian, but I accept others for who they are.

[jeh1980]

Why not. You don't believe in God?

Ah, but I do my friend.  Not only believe in Him, I know Him. 

And that is the precise reason that I didn't agree with the "by God" phrase in how you used it.  The bizarre and ungodly things that man may choose and make up to do are NOT "by God".  They are by man.  God is holy, set apart and it would be blasphemy to say that the creative ways we come up with to sin are "by" Him. 

So true.

[BridgeTroll]

I really dislike this discusion.  The courts have never dictated the rights to marriage until now. 

the courts have never needed to before now.  doesn't that tell us all we need to know?

it is certainly a divisive issue though. 

No it doesn't tell all we have to know.   Why are the courts suddenly deciding they have to be involved, what changed.  the states consitution or there personal opinion,  I think the latter.

You ask what changed to cause this.  IMO... what changed was gays demanding the right to marry within the same sex.  Gays have always been able to marry.  They have, and are now, married to people of opposite sexes.  What has changed is the demand to marry the same sex.

[Ocklawaha]

Simply put the Old Testament condems homosexual acts as punishable by death. THAT was "By God". In Grace (after the cross) we are in a new age of forgiveness for ANY sin. As an example, I too "Know God", yet recently helped my daughters wedding planning business by arranging a beautiful Lesbian wedding on the beach. Yes, I was there, but as Christians, to throw the first stone... or be ugly would be just as much a sin.
So what are we to do? Love them as Christ loves them. It's the only way to be the "light of this world". Lights don't do DARK things. That's my view.

OCKLAWAHA

[Driven1]

Simply put the Old Testament condems homosexual acts as punishable by death. THAT was "By God". In Grace (after the cross) we are in a new age of forgiveness for ANY sin. As an example, I too "Know God", yet recently helped my daughters wedding planning business by arranging a beautiful Lesbian wedding on the beach. Yes, I was there, but as Christians, to throw the first stone... or be ugly would be just as much a sin.
So what are we to do? Love them as Christ loves them. It's the only way to be the "light of this world". Lights don't do DARK things. That's my view.

Ock...the New Testament clearly condemns homosexuality as well....just as it condemns adultery and lying and stealing.  All are clearly spelled out as sins.  While it is convenient to throw out parts of the Bible that do not fit with what is becoming popular culture in the United States in 2008, I don't think God will smile upon that.  Popular culture and opinion is CONSTANTLY changing.  But God's word does not. 

Those who choose a LIFE (meaning they live in it consistently and unrepentantly) of sin (a burglar, an adulterer, a homosexual) will clearly not inherit the kingdom of God. 

Harsh words, right?  Well, if anyone has a problem with this, you certainly do not have a problem with me - as I am called to love & respect those homosexuals that I know - and to love the guy who CONTINUALLY keeps breaking into and vandalizing one of my properties - and to love a friend of mine who CONTINUALLY lies to me and never shows up when he says he will or never keeps his obligations.  I am called to pray for all of these people in love and mercy and not to judge them.  God will be the judge of all.  But I am also called to not back down from God's truth.

No.  If you have a problem with these words, you have a problem with a much higher authority than me.  You have a problem with the Truth.  With the Light.  "The Light came into the world and the world hated the Light and loved darkness."

But as Christians, to deny the truth of scripture...that is very dangerous.  And the whole reason the book of Galations was written...people were believing a "different gospel".  The Bible defines who God is.  To select out parts of the Bible and define God by that "newly created Bible" is to "create" a new "god" - to create an idol - a god who does not exist. 

In Grace (after the cross) we are in a new age of forgiveness for ANY sin.

Yes, but "forgiveness" is not a license to sin.  Paul CLEARLY addressed this thought head on in Romans (paraphrasing - "What should we say then?  That we should sin more that God's grace should abound more?  May it NEVER be!").  Not only that, but our Savior addressed that very same issue as well.  The woman caught in adultery.  And Jesus said to the others, "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone."   But what did Jesus say next?  Everyone so conveniently forgets the very next part.  He turned to the woman and said, "Go and sin no more."  God instructed her to leave her life of sin. 

Grace is ALWAYS accompanied by truth.

[fightingosprey07]

Simply put the Old Testament condems homosexual acts as punishable by death. THAT was "By God". In Grace (after the cross) we are in a new age of forgiveness for ANY sin. As an example, I too "Know God", yet recently helped my daughters wedding planning business by arranging a beautiful Lesbian wedding on the beach. Yes, I was there, but as Christians, to throw the first stone... or be ugly would be just as much a sin.
So what are we to do? Love them as Christ loves them. It's the only way to be the "light of this world". Lights don't do DARK things. That's my view.

Ock...the New Testament clearly condemns homosexuality as well....just as it condemns adultery and lying and stealing.  All are clearly spelled out as sins.  While it is convenient to throw out parts of the Bible that do not fit with what is becoming popular culture in the United States in 2008, I don't think God will smile upon that.  Popular culture and opinion is CONSTANTLY changing.  But God's word does not. 

Those who choose a LIFE (meaning they live in it consistently and unrepentantly) of sin (a burglar, an adulterer, a homosexual) will clearly not inherit the kingdom of God. 

Harsh words, right?  Well, if anyone has a problem with this, you certainly do not have a problem with me - as I am called to love & respect those homosexuals that I know - and to love the guy who CONTINUALLY keeps breaking into and vandalizing one of my properties - and to love a friend of mine who CONTINUALLY lies to me and never shows up when he says he will or never keeps his obligations.  I am called to pray for all of these people in love and mercy and not to judge them.  God will be the judge of all.  But I am also called to not back down from God's truth.

No.  If you have a problem with these words, you have a problem with a much higher authority than me.  You have a problem with the Truth.  With the Light.  "The Light came into the world and the world hated the Light and loved darkness."

But as Christians, to deny the truth of scripture...that is very dangerous.  And the whole reason the book of Galations was written...people were believing a "different gospel".  The Bible defines who God is.  To select out parts of the Bible and define God by that "newly created Bible" is to "create" a new "god" - to create an idol - a god who does not exist. 

Do you honestly see homosexuality as being as serious a sin as adultery, lying and stealing? You must remember that not everybody in this country chooses to live according to the bible. I don't see why the bible's stance on homosexuality has anything to do with whether Gay marriage should be legal or not. This country was started on principles of religious freedom, it's laws should not have a basis in scripture.